Weapons, Mods and Ammo Mega-Thread

Post » Tue May 17, 2011 7:16 am

1. Critical chance should be affected by a combination of Luck (higher your luck, higher your chance) and player skill level.

2. Critical hit damage should be a combination of weapon stats and ammo stats. Getting a critical hit with a more powerful (and rare) ammunition should multiply the damage than a more plentiful, common ammunition.

Well since luck is a skill, I guess you just mean skill level. You do mean your PC's luck skill right? Not some arbitrary random chance number?

Why both weapon and ammo for damage? (leading question......)
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Penny Courture
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:43 am

Well since luck is a skill, I guess you just mean skill level. You do mean your PC's luck skill right? Not some arbitrary random chance number?

Why both weapon and ammo for damage? (leading question......)
Technically speaking Luck is actually a stat, not a skill (regarding Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L. Stat system versus the skill system). If by skill level you mean your level of luck (i.e. 1 luck, 5 luck, 10 luck, etc.), then yes I mean that and not random chance.

And both because while bullets are strong, the weapon they're fired out of makes the difference too. As for ammunition, certain ammo types will be rarer and to compensate for that they should not only be stronger in regular combat but in random chance/sneak attacks/etc. as well, making them more sought after. I wouldn't expect guns to have much of a multiplier (perhaps only 1.5x multiplier of their current damage) except for certain weapons (unique weapons that are unique because they have a bigger multiplier) but I still think they should have some level of impact on critical strikes.
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 4:09 am

I would say for Number 1 Skill(as in Luck skill)

and for Number 2 Skill(Guns)
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Robert
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:20 pm

Player Luck and Skill with the weapon itself should play into criticals in my opinion. :tops:
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:59 pm

If there's one thing people love as much as things that go boom, it's things that spin. Put them together and you get a revolver. Or one of those lame 4th of July pinwheels... That's not really the point though. Revolvers are iconic, plus they look better. They're also kind of better for chambering large rounds too. Don't tell me a scoped magnum isn't badass.

I hear that revolvers over clip-fed hand guns are less needed to take care of and clean less. Not saying you never have to but less than a non-revolver pistol(sorry don't know what you classify or name them as).
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Kelvin Diaz
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 11:48 am

Crit. chance should be luck mixed with guns skill.
Crit. damage should depend on the weapon.
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Yvonne Gruening
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:14 am

Technically speaking Luck is actually a stat, not a skill

I R dufus. Thanks for the correction.

I hear that revolvers over clip-fed hand guns are less needed to take care of and clean less. Not saying you never have to but less than a non-revolver pistol(sorry don't know what you classify or name them as).

Basically this. There are usually less moving parts in revolvers, and therefore, less crap to have to clean.

Crit. chance should be luck mixed with guns skill.
Crit. damage should depend on the weapon.

Don't you think different ammo types should have different effects on critical damage? An AP round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_piercing_bullet), even if it hits a critical area, has much more chance to pass stratight through without transferring much energy to the target than, say, an expanding round like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_point? Or is the base damage difference between the two rounds enough to distinguish between them?
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Victoria Bartel
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 8:38 am

In games: look cool, sound cool, tend to be more powerful than comparable semi-auto pistols.

In real-life: look cool, common models can handle very powerful rounds (e.g. .44 Magnum), are reliable and low-maintenance. Revolvers also use rimmed cartridges to headspace, which means that you can load shorter cartridges of the same diameter in the cylinder for targeting shooting. E.g. .357 Magnum and .38 Special can both be fired from a .357 Magnum revolver. .44 Magnum and .44 Special can both be fired from a .44 Magnum revolver.


I'm so glad there are developers out there that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to guns AND actually incorporate that into their games. :fallout:

Edit: I hate when games have mistakes such as the AT-4 that locks onto aircraft. The AT-4 was not designed to shoot aircraft and it certainly doesn't lock on in real life, at least it didn't when I shot one... I am sure I will not see such mistakes in this game.

@ J.E. Sawyer I hope to see if the M1 Garand actually uses "clips" and if it can be modified to use a magazine, such as the Italian BM59 (which I think may actually be what everyone is calling the Garand) http://world.guns.ru/assault/as54-e.htm
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Red Sauce
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 11:45 am

Hmm...
for the M1 Garand
I wonder if you'll still be able to hear that
PING!!! sound when the clip pops out

if I'm mistaken I apologize
I'm not a real gun nut so sometimes I mix up certain guns
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Haley Merkley
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 12:38 am

Hmm...
for the M1 Garand
I wonder if you'll still be able to hear that
PING!!! sound when the clip pops out

if I'm mistaken I apologize
I'm not a real gun nut so sometimes I mix up certain guns

Me neither, but its one my favorite sounds in world war two films. Hearing that rich ping noise is just very palpable to the soul. xD
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louise hamilton
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 6:02 am

Me neither, but its one my favorite sounds in world war two films. Hearing that rich ping noise is just very palpable to the soul. xD


Same here :)
I love watching Band of Brothers and hearing that PING sound when they empty the clip
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CORY
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 4:59 pm

Same here :)
I love watching Band of Brothers and hearing that PING sound when they empty the clip

Indeed,kudos on good tv tastes :tops:
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Rob Smith
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 pm

Same here :)
I love watching Band of Brothers and hearing that PING sound when they empty the clip


lol especially on band of brothers when loads of them start to fire really fast and all it is ping,ping,ping but i never understood why it pings out becuase it basically telling the enemy your out off bullets :(
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CYCO JO-NATE
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:31 am

lol especially on band of brothers when loads of them start to fire really fast and all it is ping,ping,ping but i never understood why it pings out becuase it basically telling the enemy your out off bullets :(


I actually remember watching a documentary that talked about that
the good was that it allowed for slightly faster reload
the bad was when enemy soldiers recognized the sound they immedietaly let loose with their weapons
after hearing it
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Sylvia Luciani
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:33 pm

3) Its a grease gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun I saw it when I went to Quakecon.

Sorry, I dont have a video for it though.


I will SO be making one of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAOKhLi8xj4 if you're right.

Integral silencer mod Sawyer?
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Cameron Wood
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 6:05 am

lol especially on band of brothers when loads of them start to fire really fast and all it is ping,ping,ping but i never understood why it pings out becuase it basically telling the enemy your out off bullets :(


That was actually a design flaw, but they used it to their advantage. The enemies soon understoood that the ping signaled that the GI's would be reloading and they would then advance, so the GI's would have only half of the men fire and when they were reloading and the enemy would advance the remaining soldiers would fire, thus catching them off guard.
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Brian LeHury
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 5:48 am

1. Critical chance should be affected by a combination of Luck (higher your luck, higher your chance) and player skill level.

2. Critical hit damage should be a combination of weapon stats and ammo stats. Getting a critical hit with a more powerful (and rare) ammunition should multiply the damage than a more plentiful, common ammunition.



I completely agree with this and the reasons fourtput(?)
In that this is the most logical combination of attributes and whatnot
as the chance of getting a critical hit is caused by luck anyways, and the better your knowledge of that weapon (like rifle and pistol perks, and small guns big gun skills (which i guess are now combined)) and the damage associated with this critical hit logically is controlled by the weapon and ammo stats as volundarkioa mentioned

edit: guess im a day late lol
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saxon
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:49 am

I will SO be making one of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAOKhLi8xj4 if you're right.

Integral silencer mod Sawyer?


Based on http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/30829, I think it's safe to assume that there will be integral suppressor mods for some guns. I didn't see it at first, but someone pointed it out a while ago.
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Rachie Stout
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 2:09 pm

Found a cool video with someone shooting a Thompson an Grease Gun (Shoots the Grease Gun with suppressor on as well) thought my fellow gun enthusiasts would enjoy it. :tops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swzZrzCJ4-o&feature=related
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meghan lock
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 9:14 am

That was actually a design flaw, but they used it to their advantage. The enemies soon understoood that the ping signaled that the GI's would be reloading and they would then advance, so the GI's would have only half of the men fire and when they were reloading and the enemy would advance the remaining soldiers would fire, thus catching them off guard.

I wouldn't exacty call it a design flaw. It was a considered design decision that had advantages and disadvantages. The garand rifle began development in the early 1920s. At that time, there had been very few successful auto-rifle designs. It was only about 20-30 years removed from the era where all the nations of the world went from single shot rifles like the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_Model_1871 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Model_1873 to bolt-action magazine fed repeating rifles like the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_98, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield. These rifles were a gigantic leap forward in technology over the single shot models, what with their ability to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQzJgvj74jE. These rifles were all so damn good, they are still with us today as their features are all staples in modern hunting rifles. There had been some working semi-auto designs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondrag%C3%B3n_rifle. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_device, which effectively converted a M1903 to a 7.65mm assault-rifle. But no army had any semi-auto rifle in general issue to all their infantry.

The Garand was originally chambered in a different round, .276. As for the magazine design, they had a few working magazine designs that had been proven at the time. You have to remember that this was well before the detachable box magazine as we know it today.

1. There was the integral box, which was a magazine held entirely inside the body of the rifle, like the Mauser design, and was usually fed by http://www.aaconsult.com/ammoreview/html/stripper_clips.html. A strip of metal and brass held (usually) 5 bullets together arrainged in a line. The rifle receivers were machined so there was a slot this strip could be inserted into and with a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWsntizb5C0&feature=related off the strip, they woud feed into the internal magazine of the rifle and you throw away the stripper clip. Mosins, Springfields, Mausers all used this method.

2. Some of these designs actually did have the ability for the magainze to detach. An external box magazine would fit up into the rifle action, usually protruding slightly from bottom of the rifle stock (unlike today's long magazines) and lock in place. These were not really designed to be used as replaceable mags. You still fed them from the top with stripper clips and only really took them off to clean the rifle. Rifles with this design included the Enfield.

3. The last type of magazine design was the en-bloc clip design used in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Mannlicher_M1895 designs. It worked almost identically to the above styles, (some were detatchable box, some intergral) but it differed in that it did not use a stripper clip system to feed the rounds into the magazine. The bullets came, instead of on a metal strip, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Garand_clip.jpg, double stacked, neatly together. When the rifle is loaded, this entire en-bloc clip is inserted into the magazine well and locked into place by a latch. Just like the internal magazines, the bullets are pushed up by a spring as the rifle action feeds each one into the chamber. The difference is, when you're done shooting your 5 rounds from a Mauser stripper clip fed rifle, there's nothing left in the magazine. With en-bloc clips, after you shoot all the rounds, the clip is still in the gun. The latch that locks the clip into the gun is then activated by the magazine spring follower and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkUjswfbNaw&feature=related. The Mannlicher designs had them pop out the bottom, but this neccessitated a hole in the bottom of the magazine where dirt would get in and foul the weapon.

John Garand decided to use the en-bloc clip because of the quicker reload time. It is much quicker to load an 8 round en-bloc clip into a Garand than to load a stripper clip into a 5 shot Mauser. The Enfield was 10 shots, but you had to use 2 stripper clips to fully load it. The number of working parts in the rifle were no different, nor was it any harder to manufacture, so the quicker, higher volume, (with the original .276 caliber the en-bloc clip was to hold 10 rounds. After the switch back to .30-06, there was only room for 8.) magazine system was chosen. The drawbacks were that you could not top off an en-bloc clip easily and the latch that ejects the clip when empty made a distinctive "ping" when the rifle was emptied. This "ping" has become the Garand's defining characteristic to most people.
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Teghan Harris
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 3:06 am

/snip/


man....this guy is really into guns :blink:
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Joey Bel
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:29 am

man....this guy is really into guns :blink:

6 years in the Marine Corps, a lifetime of studying history and firearms. Yeah. I'm really into guns.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 1:48 am

6 years in the Marine Corps, a lifetime of studying history and firearms. Yeah. I'm really into guns.


and here I am having only shot a paintball and BB gun :)
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herrade
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 9:46 am

I completely agree with this and the reasons fourtput(?)
In that this is the most logical combination of attributes and whatnot
as the chance of getting a critical hit is caused by luck anyways, and the better your knowledge of that weapon (like rifle and pistol perks, and small guns big gun skills (which i guess are now combined)) and the damage associated with this critical hit logically is controlled by the weapon and ammo stats as volundarkioa mentioned

edit: guess im a day late lol

The homework's not late until the teacher says so. I probably won't post a new question everyday, anyways.

One thing about player character skill and damage is that Josh has convinced me that player character skill should have some effect on damage. The better the skill the more likely to hit an important part of the target. But then I thought that that's what critical hits are for. So if player skill effect on damage is better used as a critical hit, then is it enough to use it only in the % chance for a critical hit, or should it have some pretty big effect on the additional damage also?
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Tue May 17, 2011 6:07 am

Don't you think different ammo types should have different effects on critical damage? An AP round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_piercing_bullet), even if it hits a critical area, has much more chance to pass stratight through without transferring much energy to the target than, say, an expanding round like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_point? Or is the base damage difference between the two rounds enough to distinguish between them?

Wasn't even thinking about ammo types yeah that would make sense.
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Tha King o Geekz
 
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