the vampire will still always be more powerful, the wolf is brute force and brute force only gets you so far, just like a tank isnt the most practical in towns, neither is a wolf, the vampire is a sniper, the most influental combat unit, and can avoid being seen if needed

Werewolves have a chance to be 2x stronger than they already are with beasteal strength. Then they can call upon another werewolf to the fight. We dont even know what the strongest perk for werewolves is, the predator one. So I have a strong feeling that these VL elistists shouldn't be so sure just yet.

Actually, I think totem of the moon is the strongest one. It's the farthest from the start and it's purple instead of blue.

LMFAO Beasteality! Beastial is what you mean

LOL i also found that hilarious

Oh really? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-YBGRT5WJ0. Lol

Problem is, that those Werewolves you summon, are also "squishy" due to having no Armor Rating as well. Plus the Howl has a cool down, unlike the Vampire Lord's "Summon Gargoyle".

Yeah, pretty much. The Vampire Lord can summon a Gargoyle to tank for him, plus he's constantly leeching health when he deals damage. The Werewolf actually has to score a kill before he can regain health from feeding, and if you got a bunch of NPCs on you, taking the time to feed can get you killed with how squishy you are. Good thing the "Howl Interrupt" was never patched out.

There are some creatures that a Werewolf cannot ragdoll, like Mammoths (Which can pivot on a dime, making hit and runs on them hard) and Dragons. Ever try taking on an Ancient Dragon in Beast Form? With 0 Armor Rating, a single snap of it's jaws will do 300 damage to you...on Adept. 600 damage on Master. Even if a Lvl 81 char did absolutely nothing but devote all his levels to Health, for a total of 900, then went into Beast Form with the Animal Vigor perk for 1,100 Health, he'd still be killed in 2 bites on Master. Even just his wing smashes hit hard. Now imagine the kind of damage that the new "Legendary Dragons" can do...

In the past TES games however, Werewolves have had a supernatural resistance to common weaponry, only Silver or enchanted weapons could ignore it. In TES II: Daggerfall, Werewolves/Wereboars were completely immune to anything below Silver. In TES III: Morrowind (Bloodmoon), Werewolves also had some resistance to normal weaponry.

Wow... I apologize to my fans. Sometimes I think I should sleep more.

@To all critics:
All I'm asking for:
w-beasts - more than 1 choice of Howl(which I'm almost sure it will be possible), feed also on animals(lore wise) not only on humans and fix that armor bug/counter it with health bonuses(which most certainly happen)

vamps - to be nerfed, because they look so utterly OP, anybody who isn't a vampire lover/gamebreaker should agree.

for both: more enemies using silver weapons and more types of silver weapons and more savage werebeast enemies(call them berserkers, wanderers, lunatics inbetween etc.)

also, lore wise daedric also should have "undead bonus damage"

and 1 more word: WEREBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And please, don't hate, I'm doing it only for greater good.

If this were a multiplayer game then sure nerf away but this is a single player game so Sod Off and stop trying to ruin Vamps

Couple things korbu:
1. Werewolves have high health and high damage to make up for the lack of armor. So will the werewolf summon.
2. Werewolves can send enemies flying. Use that as crowd control to mitigate the damage taken.
3. Neither werewolf or vampire lord should fight an ancient dragon.

probably already been said but really to even it out we should just have the same turning mechanics. As in we can turn however many times we want, for however long we want, and turn back whenever we want.

The two things affected by this change would be

Feeding: as bloodlust would no longer be an issue, but this is already being assigned a new use with the perk tree

Ring of Hircine:as the extra transformation would be pointless, but maybe this could have an extra thing. Like maybe you can turn once a day for two minutes after you have cured your lycanthropy

Vamps are not anymore OP compared to werewolves. Did you see the damage of the spells? Vampire lords are going to be going through a lot of magicka and using hit and run just like all spell casters.

That might matter if this were a multiplayer game.

Oh c'mon:D i know but having too much power with no consequences will most likely ruin your gameplay just like Smithing, Enchanting etc glitches.
And don't tell me to sod off. I know you're a bloodsvckers lover, i'm okay with it. And I honestly HOPE for at least some ammount of Sun damage, because then VLords would need to transform back at least, before singlehandely owning the game.

Basically everyone wants to have a killing machine with absolutely no drawbacks. i know it's fun but at the same time is too easy. A bit of helth level control, killing to lenghten your Vampire Lord state against the "tyranny of the Sun" would certainly make the game more enjoyable and better. You must agree with this. There would exist at least some risk and pressure to kill:D

Werewolves are obviously are going to have the advantage in close quarters, but if bethesda adds werebears thats going to be a whole different story.

Mammoths cannot pivot on a dime very fast. I have utterly destroyed mammoths as a werewolf. As far as dragons vs werewolf, you have to be more realistic. A werewolf or vampire lord for that matter is not a god. It makes perfect sense that they would stand no chance against an ancient dragon and I bet you that even still a clever wolf with the perks could probably take one out even if its not easy. Both forms are meant to be supremely popwerful and be able to kill a hell of alot of things but they are not invincible or completely unstoppable. If you want that you can toggle god mode via console honestly The important thing is that a werewolf can take out a vampire lord if they are smart and vice versa. There are gonna be more powerful creatures than them for sure though.

They could make werebears have much higher health so that they can stand in the center of 1000 soldiers trying to kill them and feel like the wind is being slightly more aggressive than usual.


Yeah, there's a lot of people who argue against the idea of one or two (two moons and all) forced transformations for the werewolves. I personally don't think they'd be that bothersome, but others act like that requesting that is like defacing the Mona Lisa.

Hi vsions:D You're probably not allowed to talk about it but what will happen with werewolves armor bug? will health bonuses balance it? Also WEREBEARS and savage werebeasts. And feeding off dead animals. Did I mention Werebears?

Does anyone uses the werewolf? The tried using it in situations that were hard to do with my normal weapons but well I died even faster in wolf form.

Sense when? the howl never had cool down before.

You have to use your strengths to mitigate your weaknesses. You can't just transform and run into a group of enemies expecting everyone to fall to the ground dead without a scratch on you.

Lord, the howls have a cooldown like shouts. Gargoyles have no cooldown, but they use magicka.

I know, right. There has to be some drawbacks that would make for exciting gameplay. For werewolves, we should be able to lose health every few minutes unless we make one or two kills, like in Bloodmoon and Daggerfall. We should also have forced transformations during full moons where we will not turn back unless we wait or unless morning arrives ingame.

Since they overhauled vampires, I think the Ring of Hircine should of been overhauled as well. If people dislike turning at the influence of the moons, they can equip the Ring of Hircine to avoid transforming. And before they turn, a message should pop up explaining that the moon is full and that the player is going to transform soon.

It would be nice to see armor rating options/upgrades for werewolves, it seems at higher levels the Beast Form is useless. For high level charcters the only benefit is disease immunity, though im unaware if this has been resolved with the upcoming perk tree.

The complete lack of armor rating options almost makes it a waste excluding the disease immunity. Hopefully the upcoming perk tree adds armor rating option/upgrades for the werewolf. If not resolved in the upcoming DLC then it certainly need be in the next!