Who likes Ulfric Stormcloak? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:53 pm

"I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil! I fight for their wives and children, whose names I heard whispered in their last breath...I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing! I fight... because I must."

―Ulfric Stormcloak

Hail Ulfric Stormcloak!

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:26 pm

I like ulfric because he is a good leader, but its seems like he has a really big lust for the throne of skyrim. so ya i like him but his arrogance is his downfall

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:46 pm

I don't
there is nothing special about him than his lust for power and self preservation

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:15 pm

I like ulfric because he is a good leader, but its seems like he has a really big lust for the throne of skyrim. so ya i like him but his arrogance is his downfall

But those who've reached the end on the Stormcloak side say that he refuses the crown...

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:53 pm

But those who've reached the end on the Stormcloak side say that he refuses the crown...

Eh, no, he's just not going to grab it so obviously. He's going to make sure the Moot (all the Jarls) gives him the crown, which would make him more official and less like some power hungry maniac.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:07 pm

I don't
there is nothing special about him than his lust for power and self preservation

Personally, I wouldn't follow, or want to be near to, anyone who doesn't have a very keen sense of self-preservation.

The "lust for power" thing is mostly speculation and unsubstantiated for all of that. It's interpretation..more akin to wishful thinking than fact.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:41 am

But those who've reached the end on the Stormcloak side say that he refuses the crown...

As I recall, rather than taking it right away, he decides to wait for the Moot to choose the new High King. Keep in mind, though, that by that time, all the Jarls either supported him from the beginning or were put into power by him. In other words, Ulfric has stacked the deck in his favor and their choice is a forgone conclusion.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:56 pm

Eh, no, he's just not going to grab it so obviously. He's going to make sure the Moot gives him the crown, which would make him more official, and less like some power hungry maniac.

Again, you're imposing your own motives and interpretations on Ulfric.

Ulfric can only defend himself in his own words and his own actions.

If we are unwilling to accept them at face value, then we abandon all pretense of fairness or the presumption of innocence.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:48 pm

Again, you're imposing your own motives and interpretations on Ulfric.

Ulfric can only defend himself in his own words and his own actions.

If we are unwilling to accept them at face value, then we abandon all pretense of fairness or the presumption of innocence.

Because I've played the Stormcloaks quest line each and every time I've done the Civil War, and for the dialog just before the quest to get the crown, he basically says '[censored] the Moot, I'm going to be king no matter what. You there, get me this crown so I really look the part.'

And like with what Mitheldh said, he stacked the deck completely in his favor when you complete the Civil War. He's not an idiot, as many people would like to make him out to be. He knows what he's doing, and he's definitely making sure that when he becomes High King, it won't look poorly on everyone.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:21 am

As I recall, rather than taking it right away, he decides to wait for the Moot to choose the new High King. Keep in mind, though, that by that time, all the Jarls either supported him from the beginning or were put into power by him. In other words, Ulfric has stacked the deck in his favor and their choice is a forgone conclusion.

If he's as arrogant and power hungry as people want to believe, he doesn't even need to do that. It makes no sense because to put his fate in the hands of the Moot gives them power over him at some future date. To accept their acclaim is to acknowledge the importance of their support.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:07 pm

I find him a little foul, love the actor, character looks the part for sure, but I personllally, well, no thanks. The ideals behind the sucession to the empire are fine, its just the way he is going about it. My first main was a sympathiser, and followed U.S to the end, but my current main, really is not keen on U.S's methods. Is a Free multicultural state better than an Ayrian dictatorship.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:59 pm

Because I've played the Stormcloaks quest line each and every time I've done the Civil War, and for the dialog just before the quest to get the crown, he basically says '[censored] the Moot, I'm going to be king no matter what. You there, get me this crown so I really look the part.'

How about a real quote...a citation? Not a biased paraphrase or interpretation.

Not that I disbelieve you but I suspect you have already abandoned any presumption of innocence.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:29 pm

I find him a little foul, love the actor, character looks the part for sure, but I personllally, well, no thanks. The ideals behind the sucession to the empire are fine, its just the way he is going about it. My first main was a sympathiser, and followed U.S to the end, but my current main, really is not keen on U.S's methods. Is a Free multicultural state better than an Ayrian dictatorship.

Is extermination better than any kind of state?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:37 pm

Who likes Ulfric Stormcloak?

My blade. When it meets his throat.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:23 pm

If he's as arrogant and power hungry as people want to believe, he doesn't even need to do that. It makes no sense because to put his fate in the hands of the Moot gives them power over him at some future date. To accept their acclaim is to acknowledge the importance of their support.

It makes perfect sense. It legitimizes him. It allows him to say that he did not seize power, but that he was chosen/elected to lead. It's what you call a cunning political move.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:48 am

So what if he wants power? He's not the only one. And it doesn't necessarily make him A Bad Person. Or A Bad Leader.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:31 pm

How about a real quote...a citation? Not a biased paraphrase or interpretation.

Not that I disbelieve you but I suspect you have already abandoned any presumption of innocence.

I don't have the ability to find all of his dialog. If you can point me where to get the CK, then I'll find it. I do not want to roll a new character, and power through everything just to get an exact quote I can't find on the internet.

Also, how can I be biased against him, when I've been for him every single time?

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:11 pm

So what if he wants power? He's not the only one. And it doesn't necessarily make him A Bad Person. Or A Bad Leader.

Indeed. I doubt power was not a major motivator for Titius Mede the first as well when he usurped the Imperial Throne after the Oblivion Crisis, or when Tiber Septim conquered Tamriel.
The desire for power is more often than not a large part of the motivation for war and conquest.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:56 pm

Yes, that's one of the main reasons that most people don't like him. He's a racist [censored]. He hates the Dunmer and Argonians for no good reason, and makes them live in the slums. The Argoinans don't have the right to live there at all. Long live the Aldmeri Dominion! Long live the Empire!

You don't like racists but you support the Thalmor, who are a 1000000 times more racist not only to Dunmer and Argonians, but EVERYBODY.

Logic.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:48 am

As I recall, rather than taking it right away, he decides to wait for the Moot to choose the new High King. Keep in mind, though, that by that time, all the Jarls either supported him from the beginning or were put into power by him. In other words, Ulfric has stacked the deck in his favor and their choice is a forgone conclusion.

And if you play for the Imperials, they will remove the Jarl from every Stormcloak hold you take and replace it with one of their own choosing who supports them. If it's wrong for Ulfric to "stack the deck" then it's just as wrong when the Imperials do it, unless you support the Imperials, in which case I suppose it's fine and dandy.

There ought to be an acronym for this phenomenon: IOKIYAI. It's OK If You're An Imperial.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:44 pm

And if you play for the Imperials, they will remove the Jarl from every Stormcloak hold you take and replace it with one of their own choosing who supports them. If it's wrong for Ulfric to "stack the deck" then it's just as wrong when the Imperials do it, unless you support the Imperials, in which case I suppose it's fine and dandy.

There ought to be an acronym for this phenomenon: IOKIYAI. It's OK If You're An Imperial.

I think you're misinterpreting what was being said. He's making a good political move, get a bunch of supporters in formerly held Imperial territory to vote you High King, so he becomes more legitimate in the eyes of everyone, and not just grabbing power for the lulz.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:00 pm

I like him but even more I like Galmar Stone-Fist.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:22 pm

And if you play for the Imperials, they will remove the Jarl from every Stormcloak hold you take and replace it with one of their own choosing who supports them. If it's wrong for Ulfric to "stack the deck" then it's just as wrong when the Imperials do it, unless you support the Imperials, in which case I suppose it's fine and dandy.

There ought to be an acronym for this phenomenon: IOKIYAI. It's OK If You're An Imperial.

That's all really irrelevant to what was being discussed. The claim was made that Ulfric's refusal to simply outright take the crown proved he was a great guy, when it did no such thing. What the Empire does or does not do when they win has no bearing on that point.

But, to respond anyways, keep in mind that Ulfric is in open rebellion against the Empire. That means that Ulfric and his supporters are rebels and traitors. You don't leave traitors in positions of power. In fact, they're quite lucky they weren't strung up or beheaded. I suppose they just managed to run away before the Empire was able to catch them.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:38 pm

I can see why so many people like Ulfric as he is very charismatic. I've just always had the gut feeling that the empire is the better option, don't know why. It might be because I loved the Empire so much in Oblivion :banana:

.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:27 pm

I suppose they just managed to run away before the Empire was able to catch them.

The Housecarl of Riften talks about how he would have kept fighting if the Jarl hadn't begged him to surrender, so I think the Empire elected to have them exiled and Windhelm offered them asylum.

On topic. I don't like Ulfric, and I trust him even less.