Who likes Ulfric Stormcloak? : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:16 pm

It's decided by whoever your opposing force is. If Whiterun is imperial, Ulfric is the whiner, if it's stormcloak, Tullius is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOQFZaBDCrw

Ah right, so only from my perspective then.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:38 pm

So, I am right, He done that just for personal ambition. He just want his war, his Kingdom founded over the dead bodyes of his enemies.
In the time Tamriel is passing by, the last thing I desire is a war maniac king.
Lets back to my Dunmeri thinking. If Ulfric win the war, not just will ne weakened, as the Empire.
He would have free road to reclaim back Solstheim, and even send raid parties to Morrowind, as we dont see from the 1st Era.

I don't know where you come up with these things. Why would anyone want Morrowind? The place got blown up! The lizards didn't even want it after they sacked the place. You Dunmers keep slaves and you call Ulfric a murderer, that's a laugh. Even after he lets you live in his city he could just kick you to the curb.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:02 am

The problem there is the timing. Ulfric just throw the entire province in a civil war, in the time the Empire were more weakened. If he was so brave, why he fought for the Empire before? Why he does not refused that? Because he was powerlust. He was blinded by his arrogance. Even he pushed the formation of the Forsworn.

Or maybe because that was almost 30 years ago, the situation was completely different, the WGC didn't exist, and not to mention, he might have had different goals and wishes as a teen...

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:29 am

You see? If Ulfric would speaked to Torygg instead of Murdering him all the civil war may be avoided, and the united province could secceded from the Empire with a single stroke.
But Ulfric ruined it.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:32 am

where is any proof what-so-ever he would do that? there is none. and his rise to power is not some personal ambition, it is because he is actually devout to talos and, like a true worshipper of any religion should, he stood up for his god even when times got hard (and he is attempting to actually do something other than sit on his ass and get killed like the empire would have everyone do).

His actions are proof enough dont you think ? The word "diplomacy" is not even in the deepest corner of his mind, A king shoukd be wise, and he is not.
Not to mention the religious phanatism is never so good (As a Dunmer I can largely speak of that)

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:16 pm

You see? If Ulfric would speaked to Torygg instead of Murdering him all the civil war may be avoided, and the united province could secceded from the Empire with a single stroke.
But Ulfric ruined it.

But he did speak to him. He said, and i quote, "FUS RO DAH!" :banana:

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:08 pm

But he did speak to him. He said, and i quote, "FUS RO DAH!" :banana:

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:23 pm

You see? If Ulfric would speaked to Torygg instead of Murdering him all the civil war may be avoided, and the united province could secceded from the Empire with a single stroke.
But Ulfric ruined it.

He challenged Torygg...that is speaking, the king could have refused and sided with Ulfric but instead he chose to stand with the Empire and Ulfric proved that he was not a capable leader

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:49 pm

He challenged Torygg...that is speaking, the king could have refused and sided with Ulfric but instead he chose to stand with the Empire and Ulfric proved that he was not a capable leader

The so called tradition moved him to accept. When you are challenged to death, what kind of talk you can have? Ulfric went just for that. Not intention to talk.
If his intentions would be talk, no need to challenge him to the death.
I see no logic in that. He just go to kill him, thats all. With or without tradition.
But you should know Torygg respected Ulfric so much, and if Ulfric just telled him to join his cause, is most probable that Torygg joined.
But no choice were given. Challenge to Death. So IT was

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:59 pm

The so called tradition moved him to accept. When you are challenged to death, what kind of talk you can have? Ulfric went just for that. Not intention to talk.
If his intentions would be talk, no need to challenge him to the death.
I see no logic in that. He just go to kill him, thats all. With or without tradition.
But you should know Torygg respected Ulfric so much, and if Ulfric just telled him to join his cause, is most probable that Torygg joined.
But no choice were given. Challenge to Death. So IT was

If even the King followed Tradition in that sense then your entire argument is invalid. The biggest supporter of the Empire going through with a Traditional duel in the Nordic way. If his ghost had risen and spoke it would have said "I lost in fair combat, Ulfric has proven me unworthy" because that is the Nord way

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:26 pm

If even the King followed Tradition in that sense then your entire argument is invalid. The biggest supporter of the Empire going through with a Traditional duel in the Nordic way. If his ghost had risen and spoke it would have said "I lost in fair combat, Ulfric has proven me unworthy" because that is the Nord way

Thats why I belive in Elisif words. I think Ulfric "Stormed" the palace and shouted Torygg to death, and then, run away like a rat.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:38 pm

Thats why I belive in Elisif words. I think Ulfric "Stormed" the palace and shouted Torygg to death, and then, run away like a rat.

Elisif is an Imperial Loyalist and would say anything to condemn the man who slew her husband

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:53 pm

If they talked, I imagine a dialogue like this:
Ulfric : I came here to end your life. You have two choices: die honorably or try to scape
Torygg: I have no much chances, have I ? I will never run from a traitor
Ulfric: So be it....

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:50 pm

If even the King followed Tradition in that sense then your entire argument is invalid. The biggest supporter of the Empire going through with a Traditional duel in the Nordic way. If his ghost had risen and spoke it would have said "I lost in fair combat, Ulfric has proven me unworthy" because that is the Nord way

Which begs the question...why didnt we see The High-King

Spoiler

in the hall of valor with the other courageous Nords?

kinda off topic but i didn't think about it til now.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:54 am

Elisif is an Imperial Loyalist and would say anything to condemn the man who slew her husband

I dont find she the kind of lier woman. Or exagerated. He is suffering, and he speaks the truth.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:18 pm

Which begs the question...why didnt we see The High-King

Spoiler

in the hall of valor with the other courageous Nords?

kinda off topic but i didn't think about it til now.

He is in Sovengarde, just int he fog, not the hall

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:55 am

I dont find she the kind of lier woman. Or exagerated. He is suffering, and he speaks the truth.

And yu know her personally? You can say what she is like from the 2 occasions of her relevance to the story? She could be the Wolf Queen incarnate pretending to be civil until she becomes Queen fr all we know. She seems to think she deserves to be Queen even though she JUST became Torygg's wife. She sounds like the power-hungry maniac to me

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:23 pm

I like ulfric's idea, but i don't like his army they're a bit racists at times.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:14 am

And yu know her personally? You can say what she is like from the 2 occasions of her relevance to the story? She could be the Wolf Queen incarnate pretending to be civil until she becomes Queen fr all we know. She seems to think she deserves to be Queen even though she JUST became Torygg's wife. She sounds like the power-hungry maniac to me

That statement is pointless. We are all debaging about charactes we dont know personally (and not even exist)
For the TONE of the voice actress of Elisif I can deduce she is not lying. And that I belive.
For the things that Ulfric done during the game, I think he is an ambitious nord, that dont see the big picture (throwing skyrim into a civil war for the delightful eyes of the Dominion). And so I belive.
Torygg was murdered. And So I belive.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:29 pm

That statement is pointless. We are all debaging about charactes we dont know personally (and not even exist)
For the TONE of the voice actress of Elisif I can deduce she is not lying. And that I belive.
For the things that Ulfric done during the game, I think he is an ambitious nord, that dont see the big picture (throwing skyrim into a civil war for the delightful eyes of the Dominion). And so I belive.
Torygg was murdered. And So I belive.

But you have the same amount of evidence that all the guards in the game do: "They SAY Ulfric murdered the High King...with his voice, shouted him to death". All they know is what the Empire tells them and they would never give them cause to join Ulfric

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:24 pm

But you have the same amount of evidence that all the guards in the game do: "They SAY Ulfric murdered the High King...with his voice, shouted him to death". All they know is what the Empire tells them and they would never give them cause to join Ulfric

The same proof the other side have that Ulfric made it Honorably.
Based in his actions after Torygg′s death I THINK he is... all Im saying of him in the other posts (Dont want to rewrite it all again haha)

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:47 pm

I dont find she the kind of lier woman. Or exagerated. He is suffering, and he speaks the truth.

She's a woman who lost her husband in a duel, rightful or not. OF COURSE she calls Ulfric a murderer and traitor. OF COURSE he, in her opinion, just came in, shouted and that was it. She affectuated. I would probably think and say the same thing, if I were in her situation, and thought it had been better if my husband had declined the challenge and lived.

For, if you ask the court wizard, she said there was a challenge. If you talk to Torygg in Sovngarde, he says the same.

Funny, this thread was about if anyone likes Ulfric, as a person and/or character. Now we're arguing about his actions - again... :/

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:54 pm

She's a woman who lost her husband in a duel, rightful or not. OF COURSE she calls Ulfric a murderer and traitor. OF COURSE he, in her opinion, just came in, shouted and that was it. She affectuated. I would probably think and say the same thing, if I were in her situation, and thought it had been better if my husband had declined the challenge and lived.

For, if you ask the court wizard, she said there was a challenge. If you talk to Torygg in Sovngarde, he says the same.

Funny, this thread was about if anyone likes Ulfric, as a person and/or character. Now we're arguing about his actions - again... :/

Cant help that Beth makes such great and life-like characters

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:10 pm

I better go to sleep. And NO. I dont like him as a character.

Cant help that Beth makes such great and life-like characters

At last in one! Here I FULL AGREE with you. If Ulfrich and the others were not great characters, whe wont have all this discussion.
I dont like it . But its a GREAT GREAT character. If it were a poor character, I would dont mind him.

» Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:58 pm

It takes balls to take the stance he has in such politically correct times.

I respect that.