The same way you did in Morrowind - you create a backstory for your character and act out your character accordingly?

As far as the stat boosts, it's not like stat boosts in Morrowind or Oblivion accurately represented 20 years of training either. You still start off as level 1, someone who is essentially incompetent in what they do.

But to answer your question - the same thing I do. Your character gravitates towards certain skills because of that "20 year history". That's why he seeks out a certain spell, or picks up that Two Handed sword, instead of the daggers.

It's really not hard to do.

And I don't see why Attributes have to be there period.

And really, no, your attributes would not greatly alter a character. If you make an Orc warrior, or a Dark Elf warrior, either way, you're probably still going to be pumping up your Strength and Endurance attributes. Just like if you are going mage, you will be pumping up your Intelligence attributes. Perk selection can be plenty different, especially since they are so limited in how many you can get, and so many skills to spread them out across.

I'm not going to say the game i've put 140 hours into is a bad game, but i'm all for improvement.

Just because the start of the game never changes, doesn't mean you have to include it in the story of your individual characters. In my current playthrough, I'm playing a blind Breton archer. Yeah he came into Helgen in the back of the cart, but his story didn't start there. Once I got out of Helgen, I immediately made my way to Solitude and acted as if he had crossed the border with little problem. I roleplayed that he witnessed the arrested but managed to avoid it and carried on his way. That way, he is already different from my first time through it.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean you have to use it, like any of Skyrims features. Of course I'm not going to go through all of them, because I just can't be bothered and I don't want to give people the impression that I think Skyrim is perfect... which it is far from.

oh boy, my favourite type of thread. Chuck full of romanticization, nostalgia, and sticking to certain concepts, throwing away all alternatives, deeming them "worse".

First thing to say, if anyone says that Skyrim is like CoD/Battlefield/Rage, they either haven't played these games or they haven't played Skyrim.

The main thing is, Skyrim is just as an RPG as Morrowind was. Oh, no attributes, classes, spears, whatever... No, those don't made them an RPG, the lack of them won't be taken away. They were there to serve one purpose, to differentiate between characters, adding choice for the player. And again, if you claim Skyrim has no choice or character differences, I can't help but to think we were not playing the same game. Skills and perks do the exact thing, in fact, I would argue they're doing a much better jobs as attributes ever did. While with attributes, classes you might start out differently, but you could easily ignore those, and build your character in the exact opposite way. Classes did absolutely nothing. Now with the limited number of perks your character can be truly unique. You won't be a very good mage unless you put points into the magic perks, and have a lot of magicka.
You still have choice, you still decide the path your character takes. And frankly, there are just as many paths for your character than there ever was.

Other thing that keep getting coming back is how Morrowind's combat was more character stat based, thus it makes it more of an Rpg.
That is completely false, the reason why Morrowind combat fails is BECAUSE it's NOT stat based. You can be the best archer in the world, but if you cannot aim with your mouse you won't hit anything. You can be the slowest most clumsy warrior, yet you can dodge the blow of a master swordsman by taking a step back in the right time. This is extremely frustrating, how neither going full stats or full skill earn you any reward. Going to full stat would not work, that would take away the series' first person perspective, taking away direct actions, changing them to indirect orders like Baldur's Gate.
Yet skills still matter, it did not made the game harder at all. Try to kill a dragon with a two-handed sword with no points in the skill.

i played trough all TES games, played trough multiple old RPGs, yet I never found them superior to today's RPG, especially Skyrim. Again, they do the same thing, but differently, and you can't say if it's overall better or worse than Skyrim, while in some parts they are, in just as many parts Skyrim is better.
And there's no such thing as "more of an RPG", if there is, answer me this: which one is more of an RPG Planescape Torment, Morrowind or Baldur's gate?

This. This is what I meant in the previous thread, when I said Morrowinds combat looks like that of Oblivion and Skyrim. While I agree with this to a point, I disagree when you said it isn't stat based. It is stat based, rather heavily from what I've seen, but you also have to be aiming in the right direction. Morrowind tries to do both and the end result feels rather clumsy. Now, I know I don't have much experience with Morrowind, but I feel my experience with later TES and older RPGs gives me enough to go on to be able to say that about Morrowind combat. Once my experience with Morrowind combat increases I'm sure my opinion will change but until then I will still think it is clumsy

So far nobody has convinced me that "Skyrim" is not a great RPG or TES Game.

I just see people who would have done things differently if they had the power to do so.

By itself there is nothing wrong with that sentiment.

If you're struggling to enjoy "Skyrim" as an RPG or a TES game you could always MOD it, go back to the older TES game you are familiar with and loved more or "put a period and move on".

If you're going to complain you're in the wrong place.

Bethesda's contact details are available at the bottom of these boards.

Azrael
The Nord with the Sword

I wasn't very clear, I meant it's not purely stat based like it was claimed.

Also, the combat gets easier in Morrowind later on, when your skills are high enough, but sometimes it's way too easy, I mean you can just run up to enemies and kill them instantly and even if they can attack back, you'll never be hit.

Go to the 'Skyrim General Discussion' page. Click on the thread asking people whether they prefer Ulfric Stormcloak or General Tullius. Read the comments, arguments, observations, discussion.
Only an RPG could provide characters who are so thought-provoking, and only an Elder Scrolls game could pull them off like Skyrim has.

Skyrim is marginal as a RPG.

It lacks stats, but does let you run through the motions of a wide variety of interactions. You can hunt and dig for what you can turn into armor and weapons and you can engage in the process from beginning to end, but it is a means without an end. Finding and buying are the still the primary ways to success, Smithing just levels your enemies to pass your core fighting skills. The loss of Attributes and Birthsigns has made every starting character feel the same at start, so replays have been diminished ...the loss of MAJOR ATTRIBUTES is a big flaw in the game that continues to hit you all the way through. Mages get nothing, they lose their crafting [Spellmaking], so it is arguable that Skyrim isn't a RPG for magic users ...no RPing through crafting or attributes and perks have marginal value.

There are 9 holds, the Forsworn, a Civil War, Vampires, Werewolves [The Companions], Vigilants of Stendarr, The Dark Brotherhood and The Thieves Guild. So much great opportunity for factions to be meaningful ... all wasted.

Skyrim is a RPG, but the potential is wasted in design flaws.


As a TES game, it is weak sauce.

...no wait, it is more like the main ingredient of weak sauce.

I just finished the MQ yesterday. Conflict with civil war seemed to stop me the first run at convening the cease fire. I thought I was only halfway through, found out otherwise. Sad.

...the MQ is so the opposite of "EPIC".

Other questlines are poorly paced. There is actually a ton of content in the College at Winterhold, you would never know it by the questline. Companions, Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild Questlines are a bit grander, but all would have benefited from requiring 2-3 sidequests of your choosing along the way.

lol! you're joking right?

we're on a TES forum. would you expect it any other way?

the comparison between whether or not skyrim is a rpg or good tes game has NOTHING to do with the other.

Skyrim is a rpg, but the problem is that its not a "strong" one. The gameworld is beautifull and the combat improved, but they clearly outruns the "rpg elements"

Lack of deph in character advancement.

Npc interaction and dialogs is pretty much linear

Quest doesnt have an impact on the gameworld or npc's.

IMO this is what seperaties a rpg from other genre, and Skyrim isnt that fleshed out in thes aspects and it should be.

Ok so if you don't need stats, classes attributes weapon diversity (not spears which what you folks seem to be hopelessly hooked on in a feeble attempt at Discrediting people) why do you find it offensive to say Skyrim is as RPG as COD?

Honestly you peeps that seem to have vendetta's against Morrowind Folk are ages more hooked on the reasons you prescribe they are "fanatical" about than they are. its hilarious

If its not clear I'll ask it again

If RPG's Don't need Stats, Classes, Attributes, Weapon diversity, Choice/Consequence, Multiple Options/Actions to go about things, extensive Character Developement etc etc. WHY do you find it offensive to Say Skyrim is as RPG as COD?

Notice I didn't say Skyrim isn't an RPG, But if you're gonna say COD isn't an RPG based on your truth that RPG's don't need the aspects above to be considered RPG's then why Should Skyrim be considered an RPG?. some folk seem so stuck on this three letter Acronym as a confirmation for your beliefs its hilarious

(Read post above)

I still fail to see how lack of attributes makes a "shallow" game.

Attributes are just simply not needed, at all. Skills are still in, they make much bigger impact than attributes, and perks are a much more permanent choice than attributes, as there's only one way to gain them, and it is impossible to get them all. And before anyone would come with the "orc and elf with the same skills" idea, an orc and an elf with the same attributes would still be the same.
Yes, characters are the same at the beginning, but not for long, so claiming it took away replayability is completely false.

Spellmaking did not take away roleplaying either, unless you also claim that games with no spellmaking have worthless mages. Customization is gone, but that's the price for more variance.

Because Skyrim has stats, diversity, choice/consequence/multiple options/actions to go about things.

Skyrim allows you to customize your game just as much as Morrowind did, just differently. Problem would remain that some of these attributes are greatly exaggerated for Morrowind.
For example, there were no multiple quest paths for Morrowind, or deep and elaborate dialog nor did it require any manner of tactics.

a rpg does need the development of stats, classes and attributes to be considered a rpg game to me. as well as, options and choices.

that's why i say that skyrim is an action-adventure roleplaying sim with light rpg elements, lol.

because it definitely doesn't fit my rpg description.

I didn't say anything about Morrowind having Tactics or Multi Quest paths, because obviously Neither does Oblivion, and the only faction with the illusion of multiquest paths is DB, and that's incredibly short in fact I didn't say a thing about Morrowind just the predisposition some people have against fans of it. anyway didn't answer my Question, So COD and Skyrim are equivalent in RPG elements right? therefore no contessima.


Well Seeing Imseeingred there are folks that would disagree with you even if I agree.


Want me to talk about morrowind? ok, With a simple statement I hope one day you'll realize that its not about Spellmaking/spears/Attributes/piecemeal armor/Mushrooms/Bugs/ Smoking Dunmer Voices/Text boxs/ old graphics from 02 that people like Morrowind and compare subsequent games to it so often.
Its what they all represent, Options/More ways to do things.

What I'm saying is that, no they are not.

Unless I'm mistaken about COD has more RPG elements than I know of.

In that case Morrowind is pretty much like COD as well.

Why? They Both have limited Options in Customization, hell COD even more so, or let me be precise, MW3, leveling your weapons, customizing your character getting stronger over time etc etc both are straightforward in the MQ, more or less on rails, we're nothing counting Skyrims Scale because FF series are RPG's and aren't Openworld save for the MMO's....

I believe there was a coordinated spam attack that hit 23 pages.

I think Skyrim is a brilliant game, and a good action/adventure RPG. I do think that it doesn't follow in the footsteps of the old generation of TES, or even the new generation (or heck, even Fallout), it is actually pretty unique, however I just don't like the direction, the fact the art design doesn't get a whole lot of chance to shine doesn't help either,

I agree. Gameplay and graphically wise skyrim is great. The rest not so great.

In Morrowind character progression was done by choosing stats and the whole building of your character evolved around stats and it's impact on your character and the ability to fight or do certain things. At end level in Morrowind you would be a master of all trades, and the one thing thats eparated that character with a different master of all trades was the stats and your choices of them.

In Skyrim charactaer progression is based on building the character by perks rather then have stats as a dominant factor. At end level in Skyrim your character is no longer a master of all trades. He can be a jack of all trades but he can also be a highly specialized warrior or a Mage or a thief or a arcane archer or a mixture of warrior and mage etc. The character is defined by your choices when building him, No longer will he be able to do everything unless you chooses so.

Both systems allows you to create unique characters, they have a different appraoch to it. I know which I prefer, the master of all trade system was never a good system in my eyes. I like to build a specific character, not be the best of everything. Attributes could have been kept in Skyrim and used to create more variation, but it isn't necessary in order to create a character. The current system ain't perfect, but it is a good base for future games to evolve around and improve upon. Combine the current system with attributes, throw in some options during character creation that will give you disadvantages and advantages. Replace perks that makes no sense with proper ones, throw in Birthsigns again to further improve upon the feeling of creating a unique character at start and you pretty much have a system that is close to perfect for a TES game. It would mean you could create a unique character at start that could keep staying unique all the way, as it is now you create a generic character and the higher the level you get the more unique he gets.

The Perks existence doesn't need to be disputed, their Purpose and effectiveness do however.

Title says Great Rpg, not if it is or Isn't please stop hooking yourselves on it, Skyrim is a Game, thus an RPG by conventional understanding on these forums ;p

Skyrim is an action adventure game. Same as most TES games. That doesn't make it an RPG. That doesn't make it not an RPG.

I consider the difference between an RPG and various types of adventure games to be whether you ARE a character, or you CONTROL a character. Take your basic Mario game: you're controlling Mario. You don't have to decide what he's eating for lunch, or whether he's going to make a wisecrack when he foils Bowser. You're just piloting him through the world. On the other hand, Mass Effect 1 requires a significant amount of choices in how you're going to wear your Shep mask. In a much more vivid sense, you're asked to be Shepherd.

Skyrim left me feeling like I was piloting a pair of hands, so I'd have to say that, for me, it's not much of an RPG. I'd expected to be MORE connected with my Skyrim character than I am with my Oblivion characters... but I guess there's a reason why I've played a lot more Oblivion since November than I have Skyrim.

I highly doubt those customization elements are permanent.

I mean are there weapon skills? Like you can equip any weapons in both games, yes, but can you focus on one of them, like being exponentiatlly stronger in one weapon, maybe even given some special properties to it, while ignoring others?
Focusing on power, health or agility?

And what makes Morrowind special, in that it's not like COD if Skyrim is?