They said the same about Live Roleplay when it started becoming popular. Its a different form, and a diversification.

RolePlaying Game is not complicated. its as simple as what it says on the tin. A game, about playing a role you create. Theres lots of different ways to do this, and the methodology in which this simple task is achieved, is pure semantics.

We do have our own opinions on the most enjoyable methodology to aid this, the more creative tend to require stats less, and the more technical tend to require stats more, neither is superior. Most opt to a middle ground, which will cause complaints from both.

I object to the word degrade, and as your own comments indicate, you cannot demand that it has, because that denies discussion, for exactly the points I raise above. Its pedantry, semantics, when the core concept of an RPG is so simple, that it covers an amazingly wide range of methods.

The argument is not if Skyrim is an RPG, thats ill considered considering the range of games that call themselves RPG, but rather the discussion is on the methodology in which it allows you to create a character in keeping with the world presented, and how well it allows you to do so.

Well, actually that sounds kinda fun. I'll make sure to bring the rest of my old platoon, they're always up for a fight.

Nostalgia is something that isn't what it used to be.

You sir have a horrible taste and no sense of humor.Its beyond me how someone can not like Edwin or Minsk.

7th page... so far all we have established is the OP wishes Skyrim was BG3...I'd like to play BG3 too but DnD based games arent the only RPGs out there

It's nostalgia if I still play the old RPG's to date?

Go for the eyes boo, GO FOR THE EYES... YAARG!!!

Fair enough haha

lol this forum cracks me upby any chace was it your brain that was injured

it doesnt matter what you consider an RPG "should" be when you play Skyrim you are playing the role of the game character you created therefore it is an RPG. everything else is irrelevant.

This, basically.

Indeed, the dialogue doesn't really provide a lot of choice and/or room for roleplaying so if you consider dialogue the only important element to an RPG, Skyrim doesn't qualify as one. Neither do previous TES games, though. However, Skyrim does have character development, skill trees, professions, freedom of choice and a lot more elements that I consider to be important elements of an RPG.

I would have liked a bit more choice in dialogue. A lot of the time, you only have 1 response to choose which really feels limiting. Even if options are just flavor and don't change the response or outcome, it adds something for me. Branching dialogue with different outcomes would be even better, but it would come at the cost of the amount of content.

But despite this flaw in dialogue, I still consider Skyrim an RPG. An action-RPG, yes, but an awesome one at that.

Minsk and Boo (and noober) were about the most idiotic and annoying characters in any game I've ever played lol.

But here's the thing... to each their own yeah? I don't go to BioWare's site demanding that they make DA more open ended and allow me more creativity in their games. I just don't play them.

I'm not against more action in RPGs, but I'd like to have good action, something that unfortunately Skyrim doesn't have.

Regarding computer RPGs, after 20 years the best one is still the same: Ultima 7. Wonder why cannot they reproduce something similar...

No that's the point...folks always talk about "back in the day"....

You can still play Balder's Gate, Neverwinter's Night, and Daggerfall.
A lot of kids just want to sound "old school"....
Ooooooh!

No I wish it was like.. MW2.. with dragons. And stuff.

Nah I dunno, I just dont feel like I get into a roleplaying mood when I play, yet I can get in a Roleplaying mood with games that have squares for people... makes me feel like something is missing.

If we're going to be purist here, I'll go out on a limb, and say if you really want to play a "true" rpg then stick to pen and paper. I haven't played AD&D in a while, but man it's a blast. Having said that, as has been stated, games evolve. Hell even pen and paper D&D evolved. I haven't played much of the third edition (which is weird because I have most of the books) and haven't played anything beyond. Last time I played it was second edition. But dammit I love games like Skyrim. It's that open world, exploration, build the character you want, do what you want, that to me makes it and RPG. And it's damn good. Oh sure, it would be nice to have a more purist spread sheet build, with lots of stats and numbers, and mountains of reading. But things move on, things change.

The car anology was apt. Hell on that note, I'd even take it further. Look at Le Mans or F1. You want a bad rpg comparison out of that? Dragon Age 2 = Nascar.

Clearly, 80% of all the posters in this thread are experts and are a recognised (in their own head) authority on the definition of a computer based RPG.

The video game industry is evolving at a rapid rate. It is illogical to make comparisons with the games you grew up with, or favourite Classic RPG Titles, that likely influenced your current opinion of what a "true" RPG is meant to be like.

Too tired to continue, so to sum up:

I favour my stance of "go with the flow". Skyrim is new, awesome and fun. Sure the AI, and various other tech isnt quite there yet to make it a true virtual world, but things are clearly advancing and improving month by month, year by year. Also Gaming is becoming more mainstream by the minute, this will aid in investment for new technologies and exciting new projects.

Enjoy it while it lasts, and until the next mind blowing advancement occurs.

I dont need a brain injury to be stupid. I was born that way. But seriously? An RPG, to me, is a game which is devaloped for roleplaying. Not a game devaloped for action with RPG elements. (How I see Skyrim)

I never actually played it. Maybe I'll try...

Just wait until they invent "Smellivision".

Just goina save this and try them out.....

All the RP elements are still there, they just didn't do it by using "proper" classical RPG categories and subcategories.

The concept is to make an amazing open world that anyone can play however they want, not to make an orthodox RPG for only orthodox RPG fans. Its about "living another life" and not rolling dice.

There are plenty of thoughtful and smart people who love that concept but just aren't into that sort of thing.

If you need that play D&D.

console MMO

(i know FF has tried)

RPGers can be an entitled lot (though it is funny to visit forums for other games - like FPS and see "dumbing down" arguments). And of course often they don't want that - they'll throw out buzz words - casual, simplified, dumbing down - but if a conversation goes long enough all to often it gets to a point where it becomes clear what they actually want is essentially a near identical sequal to their particular favorite game ever.

Obviously if a developer doesn't make it a near identical sequal they will have abandoned the fans, the roots, the genre and sacrificed the future. Change is bad you see unless it is change that is the same.


How weird. An RPG, to me as well, is a game which is developed for role playing. Which is how I see Skyrim, and not as a game developed for action with RPG elements (though there is plenty of fun action).

Perhaps, and I think I feel a tingle that could be the start of an epithany, people just have different tastes and can respond to things different. Maybe there are people out there who hate DnD but love nWOD. Maybe there are people who have different oppinions on which is the best RPG of all time.

My word... maybe this all has a degree of subjectivity to it.

RPG games are not designed for the "weirdo's" that hides out in dark basemants playing Ad&D, looking at the P&P rpg games you see the same trend there also. Compare AD&D to D&D 4.0 and you will see D&D is nothing but a simplified version that is meant to attract the masses rather then the minority of players. Same trend in gaming industry, it's not meant to satisfy the minority, but the mayority of players. That's why it's not possible to kill an entire town in Skyrim, by killing essential quest NPC's mayority of the playerbase would gimp themselves and thus destroy their fun because they aren't ready to face the reality of what they just did. And it is with the mayority of players the income is, if Skyrim sells 5 millions compies worldwide rather then 200.000 copies to the "hardcoe" rpg players it means a huge difference in income. So the only realistic businiess though would be to make something both can enjoy rather then try to please just one part of the group.

There are elements in skyrim that could have beens tronger RPG wise, but Skyrim is till an RPG based on the definition of what an RPG game is. You assume the role of a character in a universe. Your actions will to some extent decide the world around you, you can choose to kill the Dark brotherhood or rebuild it. It's not a mayor impact on the world around you other then the fact certain of the people you kill are rather important storywise". I can agree that these elements could have been done a lot better, but for mayority of players they would have hated having to micromanage a guild. I would have loved to be able to assume a more direct role of the thief guild, for instance Iwould be forced to spend some time every week on accepting missions and which of the members should do what job, and by choosing the correct member for the job I could also improve their skills or at worse risk the member being caught and jailed or possibly killed. Same with the other guilds also, I would loved to be able to control and decide which path they should take for the future.

Dialogues is a bit weak in Skyrim as your response to a lot of them seems to be not really having an affect, I would loved a karma system that based on your actions gave the NPC's a different reaction towards you. For instance I who play an Thief/Assassin would be noticed as a shady character that people would have a harder time to trust with information, to counter this a high speech skill and perks could make you a bit more easy to accept by people. On the other hand a player who play's a Paladin type of player would then be seen as a person who helps other without thinking of himself and from certain people he would be easier to trust and then get easier access to some information then a thief would do. I would also liked the option on quests to have options on ending them. When you are being sent out to look for Amren's sword an option would be to keep it for yourself, and not give it back, thus failing the quest and giving you bad karma, or increasing karma by giving the weapon back. Clothing should have an effect if you enter a city in full armor and weapons people should react differently towards you then if you entered the city in normal clothing and maybe a dagger as your weapon. It would be nice har resting andeating actually did something other then giving you faster skill gains and regen, that you actually had to rest every night and eat every day to avoid being fatigued. All of these things would have improved Skyrim as an RPG for my part, but for the mayority of players they would more likeliy have felt these changes to be bad and unnecessary time sink that prevented them from enjoying the game to the fullest.

Still I categorize Skyrim as an full blood RPG as it does allow me to interact with the world as an person rather then just view the world as a story being told. is it the perfect RPG, no not at all, but so far the perfect RPG has not been made either.

Where is Bards Tale in this list?

Heres the thing, when the choices you make and the actions you take dont really have much of an effect on anything other than your character, it wears a bit thin and is unrealistic. Thus making it a boring RPG. But the role playing (IE making actions by being the person, more stuff but meh) isnt the focus, the combat is, and thats what makes it an action oriented game rather than a good RPG.

Sorry , it's incomplete.Bards Tale is a must though

Also here is very big RPG list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvOSri_8oZaFdE5HbV9uWFYtM1NWNW42NU52UEhEUWc&hl=en_US/#gid=0