And when Ulfrics dead i think one of the argonians says he wishes that Ulfric is gonna be recainated into an argonian that lives under a nordic diactor or somthing like that. And Ulfric is not A badass like titus Mede the second is.....

They deserved it after what they did to the orismer.

If you're looking for a race in Tamriel that's innocent, you're going to be looking for a long time.

Well maybe those apes in valenwood? Anyway I find it hard to follow somone who was broken by the Thalmor....

You know, that's why we play TES games.... because "there IS no one true way...." I'm sorry, but Ulfric makes me very uneasy. I don't play games to be uneasy. Of course, the empire makes me uneasy as well - not to mention the nasty feelings the Thalmor give me.

So I'm not doing either faction on any of my toons.... and I'm making sure to kill Thalmor wherever I encounter them.

I kind of sympathize with his situation with the Thalmor. The moment that instantly turned me off is walking into Windhelm expecting an actual hero or something epic, and just seeing Galmar and Ulfric in quiet scheming about keeping up appearances, getting the jagged crown, commiting to the kind of symbolic gestures more typical of politicians than warriors. They just seemed really lame. The moment was anti-climatic. I'm not sure what Ulfric's appeal is. I can see the appeal of the Stormcloak cause for some of typical Nords, but not him.

You were expecting a real "hero?" and not a politician? Bah! Ulfrich is a symbolic leader and nothing more. People need symbols. I see the Stormcloaks as just people who are frustrated by inaction of the Empire, and frustrated by being under the heel of the Thalmor. There is a racist component to it, of course. Did anyone play Morrowind as a "stupid drunken" Nord? Or even as a "flathead?" Dark elves were as racist as they come. Dark elves and their "Ministry of Truth".... how Orwellian.

One thing I always shake my head at is the opening sequence.

I'm fairly certain the Stormcloak prisoner on the carriage with you could have simply yanked the gag off of Ulric's mouth and Ulric could have Shouted down the guards at the rear and escaped, before the guards could have done anything.


Which is why my Dark Elf isn't racist. She is of the mentality of "I hate everyone equally." She'll kill and steal from anyone she finds the whim for and does not care if people are racist to Elves in general.

With that said, if you direct your racism at her directly, saying something like "you damned grey skin," rather than "I hate those stinking grey skins," she feels that you have now stepped onto a personal level and thus you become one of those she whims to kill.

You wouldn't follow someone because they broke under torture? It seems you're looking for an übermensch, not a human leader. The fact that Ulfric suffered and fought all his life for the empire gives him greater authenticity IMO.

To me those exchanges humanize Ulfric and show that he's not bloodthirsty. Part of it is the voice acting, but he has a kind of quiet intensity that belies the imperial claims that he's just a barbarian. Also when you ask him about his time with the Greybeards. He grew up in a monastery, still respects those traditions, and seems to have some regret about having taken a bloodier path, which he says he did because he couldn't sit around and do nothing. It also humanizes them by showing their friendship and back-and- forth.

He's almost too human. Except, everyone else in the game makes him to be larger than life. The player gets better insight.

I would never join the Cloaks for his sake. I think that's the weakest you could do. It's like joining the fight for Cuba, simply because of Castro. Castro is an ass. Even Che knew this. But fighting for Cuba was another thing. You could seperate the two, and tolerate Castro somewhat.

Same with Ulfric. If I sided with the Cloaks, I would expect to usurp him. Or find someone better who could. I don't think he's a good leader.

With their hands tied?

He fought for Skyrim not the empire. He still broke and still betrayed the Empire, He kept betraying the empire, In sense he is a oath breaker, If he joined the legion he had to swear a oath to always be loyal to the empire....He broke that oath multiple times. To answer your question yes depending on the situation i would follow someone who broke under torture....But Ulfric broke and betrayed an oath he swore. He also killed a friend, the high king.

Can't say either side really won me over,I would prefer a third option of ignoring it and letting the game decide who won,if only that were an option. lol

Ulfric urked me more than Tullius.Everything seems to add up to him using others to get what he wants.Painting him a war hero seems more of an attempt at making him a potential martyr.He knew he could beat Tyorrg,and challenged him anyway,but when it looked like he was going to die(Tullius's ambush)he laid down his sword and surrendered.Not very Nord like if you ask me.Speak with Hadvar if you missed that bit of info.

Tullius wanted to cut my head off....what the deuce?All I did was cross the boarder at the wrong time,or in the wrong place.Damn it man,put me in jail for a few days.As a General for the Empire,you'd think this guy would have done his homework on Nord traditions and customs.Ignorance is one thing,but he boarders on stupidity with his disregard for what Nords believe.

Didn't get much of a racist vibe from the Legion,but it was definitely there with the Stormcloaks.Anyone who isn't a Nord is a milkdrinker,although any Nord who doesn't fight is also a milkdrinker....maybe they balance themselves out,but I doubt it.

Anyway,just my input.Not saying that everyone should join the Legion,just that I preferred them over the Stormcloaks.I have gone through the game more than once,and have tried both angles of the civil war.I imagine I'll go back to avoiding those quest entirely during my next play through.

Later,and happy gaming.

First, why would the Thalmor lie in their own personal files? It's not like those were reports handed to the Empire they were the personal notes of the interrogator.

Finally, "uncooperative" isn't the same as being an active enemy. Ulfric was broken and unwittingly assisting the Thalmor. Just because they couldn't send an agent to him and "suggest" a course of action doesn't mean he was not viewed as an asset.

lol, I kind of don't blame Tullius and his Captain for being so paranoid. IF you see my character, he looks like a dangerous Nord. haha

Even on my play through for the Empire,I still killed the Thalmor whenever I got the chance.I could handle the other two factions having their war,but the Thalmor needed to die as often as possible. >

Perhaps you've not seen many movies where heroes are bound/handcuffed/etc and still break free.

Does anyone do that? He still comes off better than Tullius.

Well that's not an option, and unlikely. OTOH, Elisif is a babe in the woods and is willing to be led by anyone. If you're looking for a puppet, you'd better side with the empire.

He gave himself up when he saw they were outnumbered 5 to 1, in order to keep his men from being slaughtered. He just didn't know the imperials were going to cut everyone's head off that day, including hapless bystanders like your PC.

Because: a) the Altmer never admit failure or weakness, and arrogance is their native language; and b ) the dossier is presumably written by field agents to impress superiors.

Ulfric is about as much an enemy of the Thalmor as you can get. It's the empire who are cooperating with them, and that openly. How the Thalmor viewed Ulfric is beside the point.

Regardless, I never quite understand why people seem to find it necessary to not only tout their own views of how they play a SPMR game like this one, or why on EARTH (or Nirn.... whichever) they also find it desirable to convince all and sundry that theirs is the "right" way....

It certainly seems like it. When people talk about liking Cloaks, half of it is about Ulfric. Whether it's from players, or NPCs in the game.

I'm more concerned what I or we, the players, could do to these factions. Not these leaders. I'll follow things in an abstract sense, the causes behind them, but I don't want to end up role playing some mere follower of an NPC. That's just lame. Make me the king, damnit.

Yeah and it's cheesy.

As is always being the savior in every game.

"You are Dragonborn, the first in X amount of years!"

That itself is cheesy and cliche.