Shaun isn't evil at all, he's just more "ends justify the means." So I'm in agreement there, morally misguided if anything. Not evil.

Double post

Yeah, it has a lot of fun moral ambiguity.

I think the game would have benefitted from letting Shaun at least have an explanation for all the crazy [censored] he's done. In Dragon Age, the response chart usually has a separate branch for all the craziness.

You didn't need them to be GOOD answers but they needed SOME answers.

Like:

1. I let the Super Mutants out onto the surface because I knew the Brotherhood of Steel was coming. It's a desperation ploy to slow them down. I regret the collateral damage. It's working, though, as they're concentrating on them than killing us.

2. We really-really-really need that nuclear reactor if we're going to survive. That's why things got out of control at University Point.

As I tell my students in writing shops.

"A villain doesn't need a GOOD reason to be evil but he does need *A* reason."

OOOOH so this is why the BOS Elder Material is available to unlock. I was confused for a while.

I WANT THIS OPTION SO FREAKING BAD, IT MAKES THE GAME TEN TIMES BETTER IN MY MIND!!!!!

All hail Elder Danse, Danser for money.

Anyone think there might have been a "Reform Institute" plotline plan?

Ditto Railroad?

I think Doctor Carrington taking over from Desdemona was planned. I mean, he talks a big game about replacing her but we never get any hints that this is leading anywhere.

What would the Railroad under Carrington be like, I wonder.

Or maybe you take over instead.

Yeah, exactly. And even the 'cartoonishly evil' Legion had reasons - we're crucifying and enslaving people because it makes them behave. And it did.

But Shaun's like - 'we make all these potentially beneficial discoveries... and we keep them to ourselves, cause the people up there svck... but hey son, we're still benevolent!'

Dad.. how? If you want to just keep the ppl of the Institute safe forever, just say it. I'd be down with that. Screw surface. But make it clear.

Precisely.

Hell, you could even justify that because while the Commonwealth seem all nice, the people of the Commonwealth are actually a bunch of ungrateful [censored].

The Minutemen get damaged and then they're deprived any support from Settlements.

Which forces them to be Raiders.

One thing I point about the BOS confiscating crops is, "Listen pal, there's Super Mutants we're shooting. You're going to pay your way to keep those off your back."

At least settling the Castle and Sanctuary Hills can go a long way to making sure the Minutemen are financially stable this time around.

This is exactly why I chose the BoS on my first playthrough. They were like 'We shoot the things you hate. You want to shoot the things you hate in power armor? Join us. We need you to take some crops from settlers? Those settlers want you to shoot the things you hate. Which we're doing. Everyone wins.

Eh, they're like, "But it's mine."

Tough noogies!

It's taxes now since we're the new government.

Yeah, it should even be noted that killing the settlers to gain control of their land *is* the last resort option, and Danse hates it when you do that. I liked to think of the crops as taxes/tribute. "You want us to kill the things your clearly outmatched to handle? Feed the people who risk their lives then." Which, if your going for a BoS playthrough- the minutemen wouldn't be so prolific anyhow.

I personally don't find making a settlement affiliated with minutemen to be sufficient protection against anything beyond raiders. But that is just my head-cannon.

It's canonical really unless you really put the effort into.

Artillery, at least, means that the Minutemen CAN kill Super Mutants now.

The thing is, the Brotherhood has the means to deal with the threats right now. Having the Minuteman as an actual force requires the SS to deviate from the course of finding their own infant son to help random wastelanders gather up a militia. Which is ridiculous, from a story point of view. Joining an existing military force opposing your apparent enemy in the Institute makes sense.

Yup.

Depending on how far you play the game, once you know your son is alive, then I don't see any contradiction with helping the Minutemen afterward.

Oh, yeah. Totally. But his point is, by then you've probably already thrown in your lot and pledged your allegiances.

YMMV.

Not really because the game provides a great reason why the SS would do that.

I.e. they don't believe Mama Murphy is a psychic.

So looking ANYWHERE is looking for their son.

Also, it implies they think their son is alive which is a long shot and I took the option. "I think Shaun is dead" whenever it came up until Valentine proved otherwise.

Okay.

So you believe your son is dead. Are you so weak-spined that you immediately forgave the man who killed your wife and your son?

I hunted down and killed Kellog with a furious vengeance.

When Amata talked about Kellog being human, I was like, "Bull[censored]! He suffered everything I did and made MORE parents feel the kind of pain he did."

I also killed every single Raider I could get my hands on with psychotic glee.

I even roleplayed my Sole Survivor as working with the Minutemen in hopes he could kill more of them.

And maybe JUST MAYBE there was a CHANCE one of them had Shaun.

(I, the player, thought Shaun was with Raiders for much of the early game)

Really, helping the Minutemen would be a good way to search a larger area and get favors to help you find Shaun.

Alright but that contradicts the idea of "oh well everyone's dead time to go save the wasteland."

you're either about saving shaun, about avenging nora, or a weak livered pvssywillow.

No, I'm saying there's multiple ways to play it.

There's no great urgency to go to Diamond City if you don't believe Mama Murphy's clue.

Which is a good thing, I think, as it allows you to roleplay trying to find your own meaning in the Wasteland or looking for Shaun by exploring.

I roleplayed my Minutemen Sole survivor (before the Railroad) as suicidal like Preston was but trying to help as many people he could.

Shaun's (apparent) survival and his growing love for Piper and Cait gave him new reason to live.

They way I RP a choice like that is this...

I drove hard to find my son, but realized that going it green through the wastes was a fools errand. I needed material support. I needed a home base to hone my equipment at. The Minutemen provide that early, giving you some basic direction. I did a little work with them, which gave me the equipment and practice I needed to reach Diamond City in one piece, which is the only lead you're given at the start. Then I drove hard through the main questline until I learned my son was relatively safe with the Institute, which is played off as a vastly technologically superior force with an unknown location. There is no way I'd crack that nut without a bigger hammer... I needed a serious faction or two or three to handle that. At that point, my outlook became... The Minutemen is under my control, but I have to build them up to be useful. I'll do that. The Railroad has the best intel on the Institute, so I'll see what I can learn there. The Brotherhood has hard firepower and a drive to destroy the Institute... potentially useful, but very dangerous considering my Son is inside. I slowed down my main questline under the idea that I should build firepower, relationships, and intel that will be useful for cracking such a mysterious and powerful opponent. That gave me a reason to do all the other things... it was all a means to get into the Institute with some hope of getting out with my son.

Of course, once the truth is learned after getting inside, all that reasoning is flipped around and everything needs a new purpose.

To you, what's his face had just left the vault. He's close. If you search now you have a good chance at finding him. Wasting time, though?

You have, what, 96 hours, statistically, to find your abducted loved one before they aren't likely to be found again, right?

seriously, this changes so much, I need NEEEEEED this to be implemented for the sake of my love for the brotherhood.

I play a deprived bisixual psychopath who [censored] everything that move who pretend to side with everyone to gather information for the institute and my son with a God complex.