Calling them lunatics is just giving yourself a justification for any argument you want. They clearly aren't lunatics; they have - what appears to them - to be an entirely justified and moral system of belief.

When you help stage the coup against MacNamara in New Vegas you do it through the actual legislation of the Brotherhood. Hardin doesn't just march in and challenge him to a trial by combat. Why didn't the Outcasts do that against Elder Lyon's? From his lines it sounds like anyone can challenge the Elder and the determining factor is whom beats the other in a fight, there doesn't sound like the capacity to refuse - if the Elder wins then he's clearly the best and if the challenger wins then he is. What a stupid idea.

And yeah, he get's to skip a rank of Sentinel to achieve this.

Danse can be the elder? OMG, why didn't they put it in? I would love the irony of a synth leading a crusade against the Institute. That would be the only way I would side with the BoS. My favorite companion in the game. I don't want to be elder, but if Danse can be elder, it'd be perfect.

Becoming Elder is one thing, but a duel is absurd. Now if they cited Codex about removing Elders and Danse was an option afterwards then sure that'd make sense. After all Maxon is literally repeating the sins of the past. If you played through as the BoS you know how the Institute is destroyed, the BoS just went against all they stood for to annihilate one enemy.

I like the way you think. Danse is love, Danse is life.

MacNamarra is a Scribe, not a Paladin.

And the BoS have been degenerating from "kinda look like knights" to "we actually think we're knights" for awhile now.

You know,

as much as I would have liked to see Danse become Elder, I'm happy with the ending we got.

I don't think SS has earned the respect, and experience to take position of Elder quite yet. And making Danse elder, would make the BoS seem even more hypocritical to the other factions. Not to mention.. an easier threat for the institute to deal with, by using M-7 (-7's recall code.

Now, don't get me wrong, I *really* want to find a way to get Danse back with the brothers, because that's where we belong, and ultimately he would be happiest to be with the brotherhood (and you if you romance him.) So I'm hoping something goes down a similar route in DLC.

I don't mind becoming a new elder. But I don't want it to be from 'trial by combat' BS. The brotherhood has never really operated like that, usurping an elder is a difficult and very political process. not only that, but it's usually the head paladin who takes their place. Are we the 'Head paladin/sentinel'? I don't know, I'm pretty sure that guy is back in the citadel. I wouldn't see Danse being head paladin either considering they sent him away to do recon.

But founding a new *permenant* chapter of the BoS, in which I get to be Elder, and bring danse back? Yeah I'd be into it, it would make for some good BoS vs BoS political struggles between chapters too, rather then just waltzing in, wasting the elder and taking his jacket for myself.

I think Danse is a VERY high ranking member of the BoS.

He's also Elder Maxson's closest (only) friend.

I can see why they removed this.

Both because is highly questionable lore-wise, and because it takes away the only real downside of siding with the Brotherhood. They had to figure out a way to balance it out.

Good move IMO.

As Treng has already proven with his screenshots Bethesda think that you got from Sentinel to Elder. As was Sarah Lyons. In-fact the entire rank of Sentinel was created for the East-Coast Brotherhood by Bethesda and isn't used in any other Fallout games.

They've actually gone the opposite; being organised into an effective military force with a coherent hierarchy. Lancer-Captain Kells isn't a Paladin, or even a front-line soldier, but he puts you in your place the second you step on-board because he is the CO of the Prydwen even though the PC is a Knight.

Not to mention, doing a "Overthrow maxon, to save danse/haylen" quest, kinda undermines the entire emotional turmoil of Danse as a companion, AND being loyal to the cause you've been fighting for. The compromise is gut wrenching, it's supposed to be. Saving Danse by becoming the leader was simply too easy of a route to go, and ultimately I think the one we got lends to better character development for him.

Ehhhh, more options are more options.

I chose the Institute over the railroad BECAUSE it was the better story.

Even if it was objectively worse.

And he has the respect of many members. Some even talked you out of killing him. Danse has compassion, but also know when to do make tough decisions, you learn this during his conversations.

More options are always good. Not everything has to be tough decisions. If you join the Minutemen, it would be the best option if you want to be a goody two shoes, but that doesn't mean everyone would pick that option. Plus, different variations like that allow different playthroughs. Just because you put Danse in charge doesn't mean BoS become friends with synth. We still have to destroy the institute and maybe the RR, but maybe there is an option to share the RR. It's a roleplaying game afterall, there is no downside to more options.

Hell, I'd love more options in general.

Like a reason for the Minutemen not being awesome.

Say, someone challenging you for Generalship.

Or a guy who wants you to turn the Minutemen more ruthless.

Modding will add the option back in, I suppose.

I just personally think the route they went with will be a better foundation to build on Danses character later, (if they do DLC stuff with factions/companions.) I also think it demonizes Maxon to a lesser extent then defeating him in combat would. The fact Maxon is able to be convinced to let Danse live, if even it be in exile, makes him so much better of a character. People love to call him Hitler, but I personally think there are redeemable qualities in him, one being that he is a great leader.

I liken him to House.

A great but flawed man who has to go if you want to go a certain way.

The thing is, mods are not canon, and if Danse becomes elder, there is a chance that it may carry over in the next game, if not then it's likely not. Bethesda has a history of making BoS endings canon, so I would rather for Danse to be the elder than that spoiled brat Maxson.

Current Danse has several glitches related to him not being a part of the Brotherhood and his storyarc is very underdeveloped, especially his dialogues indicating he's still a part of the brotherhood and he's human, and I would like to see them kill 2 birds with one stone by reworking on Danse. It's not really a good foundation to build if you want to have a BoS companion and side with BoS because you see more BoS everywhere after the ending and make using Danse a chore. Also, I want Maxson's damn coat, and I can't take his coat without pissing off Danse. . Danse seems to be a better leader than Maxson because he earns his peers respect with kindness and conviction while Maxson controls them through fear. Maxson also goes against his own idea and what the BoS stood for by using nukes to destroy the institute, it's hypocritical. Maxson is already a bad guy, regardless of how you look at it.

I disagree, but we are each entitled to our own interpretation of the story and characters.

Scribe Haylen has an Elder she can follow!

Haylen: I originally signed up seeking protection and comradeship but I'm worried that I've traded away a bit of my humanity in the process. The Brotherhood's message of hope for the future is idealistic and noble but their methods leave a lot to be desired. The leadership seems especially misguided. Instead of diplomacy, they wield violent confrontation to exert control... I suppose only time will tell how long I can stand the sight of spilled blood over my own moral fiber.

yeah, and after the Brotherhood nukes the Institute and everyone in it, Haylen's journal is like "I love being in the Brotherhood, I've never been more proud"

Of mass murder. Way to drink the kool-aid Haylen

Maybe they decided to cut it out because it doesn't matter what rank you hold in the Brotherhood, Knight Rhys will continue treating you like crap.

After that, I would write down glowing praise for Big Brother too.

Also delete my old files.

as to which ending will be Canon going forward, well:

1- The Minutemen will slowly rebuild, maintain order, maybe form a Government eventually. Possibility for (re)Unificaton with NCR should their territories ever expand enough to actually meet in the middle. Olde-World America meets WWII-era America. The "GOOD" ending

2- The Instititute - Will pretty much stay underground for the forseeable future, even with a Director pro actively helping the settlers above, unless they break out of their nice cosy Bunker and start being a force, I doubt it will leave much impression. (Leaving the Minutemen to basically run the show, see point 1). The "GREY" ending

3-The Railroad - with the synths free, there is little point them existing, except as a small synth support group. They certainly would stay underground and small, or disband entirely.

4-The Brotherhood - With King Arthur Maxon in charge, Liberty Prime fully operational, he will consolidate his lands, eventually taking over all the East Coast, declaring it a country. Putting them as a ying to NCR's Yang. Potential for conflict: inevitable. So this will be the Canon ending going forward. Afterall, this is the only one that ups the stakes for war, and yup... war never changes

I'm almost 90% sure the BoS is portrayed this way so they DON'T have to deal with the Steel Empire of the East and possible war between Coasts.

Disclaimer - I'd much prefer it to be the Institute ending, they are my favourite faction. BUT I need an enemy I can feel good about ruthlessly destroying in Fallout 5, and Maxon's Brotherhood is that enemy lol

Maxon's Brotherhood: so good I blew them up twice lmao