Never said bar should be lowered but most likely people have expectations way to high.

I'm surprised the mods haven't plugged up this crotch bleed.

I think most people just expect to be able to play the game. I expect that, when I go to the store and shell out the money to purchase a new video game, I will be able to come home and play it. I expect that it will work. I don't expect the graphics, game mechanics and AI to crap out on me. If that is setting my expectations way too high then I don't want to be a gamer anymore.

Look, my expectations are the same for other game companies and I've never been let down to this extent. I've had a couple of issues with a couple of games but I've never had one on a console that made it so that I couldn't even play. I'm not going to move the bar just for Bethesda out of some notion that their games are "special".

The gist of what the OP is saying is actually right (although his way of expressing it could use some work). People who defend what Bethesda have done here are essentially contributing to the possibility that they will do it again with their next game.

The notion that this amount of bugs couldn't be avoided is absurd. There are numerous game-breaking bugs that made it into the retail copy. Some people in this forum don't seem to have much of a grasp of economics. It's quite obvious that the game should have spent far more time between code freeze and code release. They didn't even come close to getting the bugs out of it.

To me, it's clear that they prioritized making their release window over eliminating the issues that the game had. Certain issues were so obvious that there's no way that they could have made it through scrutinization. Things like the texture scaling problems on the 360 or the crippling lag on the PS3 couldn't possibly have gone undiscovered. You'd have to believe them to be totally incompetent if you think they missed those. The fact is that they chose to release the game anyway and they did so because they believed that it would be the most profitable course of action. I'm sure they realized that there would be backlash and I'm sure that the current all hands on deck cram-fest where they do everything they can to put out fires was something they knew would be necessary.

Unfortunately; we the consumers are the ones who lose out in this whole thing. We have been mistreated here. Not because of the quality of the game. When the game is actually working, it is a marvel to behold and my respect for them as creative people has gone through the roof. It's my respect for them as business people that has erroded dramatically.

The problem is that the game wasn't ready for release and as such it shouldn't have been in stores on the 11th. Some people have made the argument that, even if your game can no longer be played, you have already gotten more enjoyment out of it than you would get with most games. That might be true but we have also gotten far more frustration out of it than pretty much any game. If you buy a ticket to see a movie and you are really enjoying every minute of it but half way through, the movie just stops; how would you feel? Would you say, "hey, I got more enjoyment out of this movie than most," or would you want your money back? The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how good a product is if it doesn't actually work.

I, for one, would rather take the stance of separating the quality of the content in the game from the reliability of the software. I would rather take a stance where I make it clear to them that I don't feel that selling a product in that state is acceptable. It is, quite simply, a malfunctioning product. It doesn't work and we shouldn't act like that's ok.

This is really irrelevant. I played the game on release, then afterward, got the special edition with all the DLC. Whats your point here? That another Bethesda game became unplayable?

So, it is beyond expectation to be able to play the game at all now?

if you think issues on skyrim are major compared to other games you have, you must only play uno and sonic the hedgehog. if you load skyrim you will be able to play without any problems for a start, there might be issue on restiances thats going to be looked at very soon,but its not like it stops you being able to kill enemy. texture issue only seems to be major issue to a few people, not had any problems with ai so cant comment on them and as for flying dragons going backwards only one ive seen since patch as acting as normal. seems to be alot posts on issue yet only one persons video showing it.

No I actually don't play Uno or Sonic. I have played games like Mass Effect 1 & 2, Madden, FIFA, Dead Space 1 & 2 and a whole slew of other games on the 360 and I have never had an issue anywhere close to what I have had with Skyrim. Not only that, I originally bought Skyrim on the PS3 but I ended up taking that one back because it became unplayable and I got a 360 copy instead. That one was working fine until the latest patch sent it into the abyss.

As for your notion that only a few people are having the texture issue; take a look at the poll that is linked below. It's actually one of the most prevalent issues being reported in here.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1301872-check-off-the-problems-that-you-are-having/

So all your saying is that Bethesda should not enjoy the holidays and work 24/7 on fixing their game?

no offence but polls on an open forum like this mean little. i prefere to base judgements on what i see myself.

bad choice of games to compare since all had issues and one major point all were far lower in scope than a game as big as skyrim.
lets take mass effect 2 on xbox tech support forum has 3000+ topics and 16k plus replies, i guess its lucky it had no issues.


now feel free to name a game that you have thats had no issues, i cant wait.

He says they profited from the early release.

So on the other hand they have to endure the costs, which is fixing the friggin game as fast as possible! As long as they don't want to treat their customers like [censored] they should do it before christmas!

Some people I know took a three weeks' leave over christmas just to play it! It would be a kick in the teeth for them if gamesas first sells a half-done game and then even takes a big break before and on christmas... they can't just let the customers wait 3-4 months to get a game fixed which should have been ready for playing in the first place!

I'm not suggesting that the sample in this poll is representative of everyone who purchased the game but if you go to G4's website, you'll see that they have coverage on this issue as well. It seems that the majority of people who purchased the game are having problems with it.

As for your ME2 reference; I did have a minor issue with that game. The game froze a couple of times. I learned to save more often for a few days and then they released a patch that eliminated the problem. It's not even in the same ballpark as what this game is plagued by. It's like comparing chicken pox to HIV. ME2 didn't have game-breakers.

Not much of a profit if they have to spend time and resources to fix everything, counterproductive that way.

My game plays fine, people need to look beyond the issues of just their game and see that its not an issue that hits everyone that its an intermittent issue. That is the hardest issue to diagnose and repair. ANY issue that cant be continually repeated is not an easy fix. NOT everyone has dragons flying backwards, NOT everyone has resistance issues, NOT everyone has lag issues, NOT everyone has quest issues. Issues that can easily be duplicated can be fixed easier since its the same thing that triggers it.

Guess Im glad I have the 360 version, very playable for me and lots of other 360 users

You've really got the blinders on, don't you?

Releasing the game in the holiday window doesn't make a big difference for people like me. I'd buy it if it came out in June. The place where it makes a difference is for kids who need their parents to buy it for them. If you look at the sales charts, this game has already sold about 5 million copies across the different platforms. I guarantee you that a lot of those copies are gifts and I bet that many more will sell in the month of December.

If the game had released in the Spring, maybe it would have sold 4 million copies instead. At $60 a game, that's $60 million in additional revenue all based on meeting the holiday release window. How much do you think it's costing them to pay programmers overtime to try to create patches? I guarantee you it's not $60 million. It's probably not even one million!

Look man, I can appreciate that you're a fan of their games. I am a fan too but pull your head out of the sand. They would obviously have done a cost/benefit anolysis of bringing the game out when they did and in the state that it was in and they decided that the benefits outweighed the costs.

Wow, name calling. That's mature. I stopped reading after you called me an idiot. Yup, o think Skyrim is an awesome game. Yup, I support Bethesda.


I really wish I could report you post yo an admin. But I'm on my mobile.

I've read through it twice now. Either there's a line somewhere I'm missing, or he didn't do any 'name calling.'

EDIT: "It" being the original post.

My script was for school work but was used for comparison that programming isnt easy nor can it always be bug free. People need to remember the hardest bugs to get rid of is one that isnt consistent.

I love this idea that in order for a consumer or lay person to be able to legitimately complain about this game they have to have a computer science and coding degree. "You can't complain and make demands unless you understand the complexity of coding a game like this". Really? Oh right, so basically since only the developer itself understands this the only criticism it's open to is it's own?

Right, so if you buy a car and it doesn't work as expected, you can't complain unless you can build an engine by hand.
If you buy a TV and it breaks, you can't complain because you don't make LCD panels in your basemant.
If you buy a book and there are ten pages missing, you can't complain because you have no idea how the printing and binding process works.

Really, need I go on? What a an absolute load of pants.