I just started about 4 chapters into ADWD, the start looks pretty good.

True, I preferred Feast for Crows. Ironborn goodness!

I suppose it's all subjective, but I'm surprised to hear you disliked ADWD.

It was one of the most enjoyable books I've ever read.

ADWD is so far (I'm about half way) Well on par with CoK and SoS. What I like so much about ADWD is that there is so much going on and all the stories are interlinked very well. In Feast there were a few story lines that were pointless and didn't accomplish anything within the book.

My favourite part of ADWD is ...

I posted a very long rant against it in a http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1206307-game-of-thrones/page__st__122.

In short, I thought it was a big steamy pile of filler.

Really? Some sections are slow I'll admit, but I'm finding it a really engrossing read. FFC was much more of a filler imo. The only good parts were Euron and Arya and GRR only gave them a couple of chapters each!

FFC was filler. It was used to bring in some of the "behind the scenes" guys and put them into the series, and I guess it was the proper time to do it. The war had more or less ended at that point, and everyone was rebuilding.

DWD is a buildup of plot threading, twining them all together to (hopefully) make Winds of Winter on par, action-wise, as Storm of Swords.

Yeah, you can definitely tell that ADWD is a build up story, but that's fine with me. I actually really enjoyed FFC, all bar the hideously dull Brienne of mutha truckin' Tarth!!!

I have never disliked a fictional character more than I dislike that Wench. Actually I probably dislike every member of house Frey more than her.

Oh well I love Brienne as much as I love Davos and Ned, they are all awesome and stubborn in the same boots.

Oh, you know nothing Jon Snow


I sort of liked AFFC oddly enough. I think the whole series would have worked better if he'd let five years pass 'off screen' between ASOS and Winds of Winter. I believe that was his original idea - well, actually the original idea was to only have three books, IIRC. ADWD was just all loose ends with no satisfaction. This is of course, my humble opinion.

Davos and Ned are much more interesting. They're all relatable in the sense they are very honourable and bound by duty, but Ned is a bad ass and Davos goes on interesting adventures that actually have a point to them

Brienne...

I don't blame Brienne for that. I blame GRRM didn't do justice to her story arc, that is what I hate about FFC.

Not a very tasteful comment below:

It has some awkward scenes. I'm always worried my grandmother might get curious about the book and flip to a random page and land on one those scenes.

Also about Brienne? You don't like Pod or Nimble dike? :0

Podrick Payne, the Prince who was Promised!

I liked Pod to a degree. He was just a quiet squire mostly. Nimble dike was charming enough. Brienne's story definitely improved, but the first 3/4 of it was awful.

There is a lot of nipble and "teats" referencing in the books!

You don't like Pod? Why not, man? I mean, sir. Er, man. No no, sir.

Man.

I was surprised in Clash of Kings when

She screwed him through and through in the whole book, there's no surprise why he hated her so much.

I think Theon is one of the most complex and interesting characters in all the books.

You can't turn a massive series like this on a dime. ADWD was definitely a turn. The biggest sea change is that GRRM began fleshing out the cosmology which I think will take center stage as... this is my theory, though there are some leaks that point in this direction as well...
I loved ADWD. I got impatient at times, especially on Dany's arc, but all in all it had me totally absorbed.

No, Theon is the most annoying teen rage in the series. Joffrey is far more complex than him

Joffrey? Joffrey is nothing. He's just a spoilt, sadistic child. Theon becomes a very complex and interesting character in ADWD

Joffrey is not just spoiled, he was abused, and troubled. Like father like son, reading on how Robert mistreated him you'd understand, and reading how Robert already knew about whose child he was, you'd understand it's not the child to blame but the parents.

I do understand, but Tommen is not like Joffrey. Like father like son only goes so far. Joffrey is just a little monstrosity. Theon is arrogant and stupid and naive, but he's also never quite sure if what he's doing is the right thing. He's constantly seeking approval and it's quite sad to see him in ADWD.

I don't know how you got to that.

Joffrey's a simple kind of monster. He was raised without a father figure because Robert never cared for him, and his real father, Jaime, had to be a distant uncle or forsake the truth about he and Cersei. Speaking of Cersei... she's the entire reason Joffrey svcked. She was absolutely crazy, and she was obsessed with being like her devious father. So by trying to be that, and instilling those values on her son, she created a misguided monster.

Joffrey had no talent to speak of aside from being good-looking. He was a little [censored], a bad king, a horrible person who had Sansa beat because he was afraid of her family challenging his rule. There's nothing complex in this, this is just being a [censored].

Meanwhile, Theon is incredibly complex. He was born the third son of a hard father, who rebelled and lost both his elder sons. Ned took Theon hostage as his 'ward' to prevent another rebellion. In the North, Theon was a prisoner who was raised a northman, and that troubled him. He would constantly try and act like he was alright with it, taking on Ned's son as a younger brother and trying to act like he was superior than Jon and the like.

When he went with Robb to war, he got some freedom and was sent to the Iron Islands, where he thought he'd be missed, but then he saw his own people had scorned him, especially his father. Desperate to gain the respect of his countrymen and his father, he took over Winterfell with only 30 men, and ended up losing it to the madmen of the Boltons.

His story from then til now is really quite sad. The amount of fear he has for Ramsay proves that the bastard did some REALLY messed up things to him. If you've read the excerpt chapter from Winds of Winter, Stannis calls him the "Bastard of Bolton" and he freaks out, warning Stannis never to call him that. Why would Stannis care what he calls his enemy in his own camp? Another example of how much fear is a part of Theon.

My favorite chapter in DWD was **DWD spoilers** When Theon was in the ruins of Winterfell and had the nostalgia-blast of his childhood and started filling with regret. The best line in the entire book, possibly the only one that gave me goosebumps, was when he thought of Robb and wished that he would have died with him. **spoilers**

Joffrey svcks. Theon's awesome.