Is it ever said that Robert actually abused Joffrey? I know he was distant, but I don't know if that actually constitues as abuse. Not to say that he's Westeros' #1 Dad (that title going to Walder Frey), but I don't know if I'd call him 'abusive'.

I don't know how you got that either. Joffrey was pathetic not by his own doing but by the complex family relationship. A tragedy as a whole. Theon, well, no matter how cliche("complex") the background is, he's still teen raging like Andrew in Chronicle.


It's in FFC, Cercei confided that Robert beaten him to the blink of death for unguided behaviours Joffrey made. Robert even beaten Cercei in front of him. Then Ilyrio in ADWD said the king in westeros hired Varys for his mistrust towards his queen. Robert wasn't stupid, he vented it on Joffrey and created a monster.

Damn use spoiler tags.

But however Robert treated Joffrey is no excuse for Joffreys disgusting behavior. He's simply a bad person.

Wait, I remember that now. Wasn't that because Joffrey cut open a pregant cat because he's a sick twisted [censored] like that? Beating as a punishment isn't frowned upon at all. Cersei has Tommens' whipping boy beaten, and Theon talks about getting beaten for knocking over Old Nan once.


Isn't it exactly the same for Theon though? Born into a much more 'ecentric' family (Balon was mad, Aeron was madder, Euron was maddest) than the Lannisters/Baratheons with a raider culture, then taken away from this family at the age of 10 to be a hostage of the Starks, thus leaving him with a massive identity crisis, being too much of a Greyjoy to be a Stark, and too much of a Stark to be a Greyjoy. Then, come then onset of the War of the Five Kings, this really comes to bite him.

Theon is a great war strategist and he doesn't get the credit he deserves IMO.

In GoT season 2 Asha Greyjoy is going to be Yara Greyjoy. The reason they're changing it is because they think people will confuse Osha wish Asha. Stupid.

No, to me that makes sense, same with Cleos Frey being replaced with Alton Lannister.

I guess it just kills the confusion. Since the show can only explain so much I guess it makes sense that Cleos Frey will be Alton Lannister. Many viewers that haven't read the books wouldn't understand why a Frey is with the Lannisters.

Being beaten is one thing, being beaten to death is another, especially it was clearly not as punishment but as venting machine. Cercei's unrelenting sentence to whoever offended her family led examples to Joffrey. GRRM also wanted to portrait it that way to tell the cruelty runs deep in their blood, and that he never received the kind of education to become a good king. Spoiled by his mother and abused by his father, Joffrey was a monstrous child and deserved no sympathy, but he was also far more complex than your usual spoiled brat around the corner.

Still Theon had been acting very high school. No forethought of his actions, relying on one-time wit strategy, short-sighted and timid in so many ways. That makes him a lot less believable under such situation in comparison to Joffrey.

It may be a rare occation where you live, but over here we have plenty of real life and historical examples like him it's rather unsurprising. You may find Joffrey's story rather common because that kind of family issue is predominant where you live perhaps?


That would even be more baffling when

I laughed when Dany was in the House of the Undying Ones and those little dwarfs were [censored] some lady, just the imagery. But other than that it was freaky.

Dany is just a mega bad ass.

So is her entourage.

She definitely has an eccentric bunch along with her.

Sometimes I feel like the only one who thinks Dany is just a bit too much; especially when compared to the absence of luck most other characters seem to enjoy.

Well, the Starks spend the whole series getting shafted by a red hot, serrated phallic rod, so I've never expected anything more for them. They're my favourite house and everything, but they do have the worst luck by far. I felt the same way about the Lannisters....Yeah.

Yeah, I hate Dany.

I agree, Theon is one of my favourite characters.

Actually, I've my favourite ten characters written up somewhere else, so I'll just copy/paste as I'm bored.


1. Stannis Baratheon
2. Davos Seaworth
3. Eddard Stark
4. Tyrion Lannister
5. Arya Stark
6. Petyr Baelish
7. Roose Bolton
8. Jaime Lannister
9. Sansa Stark
10. Theon Greyjoy

I hated Theon up until DWD. Now he's one of my favourites. It was the same with Jaime up until SoS.

Theon is fascinating, character-wise. His development throughout the books is really strong; he might not be a real fan-favourite in the way Tyrion or Dany are, but literature-wise, he's excellent.

I used to hate Theon till I read ADwD. Now, I hate him even more.

I'm never going on Amazon to read reviews ever again. It seems like there are so many negative reviews. A few people gave Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings one star. I can understand if they don't prefer the books, but c'mon. A lot of people were complaining about GRRM taking too long to release Dance with Dragons. He's not their [censored].

I don't really have problem how long it takes for him to write a book, there are plenty of books out there it's not the only thing I read. Besides, I'm used to these suspensions reading those japanese manga because the authors decided to take a break of it.

I heard aDwD is pretty good because it explains a lot of of cliffhangers and starts to build up the plot.

It's not epic good but it's not bad at all. It's definitely better than Feast for Crows. Some cliffhangers weren't too well resolved but you can't satisfy everyone.

Well I still have a quarter of aCoK to finish and then Storm of Swords. Looking forward to it.

Too bad a Feast for Crows is the red headed stepchild of a Song of Ice and Fire. But I think if it was its own book and not compared to the rest of the series, it would be praised more. It's like the Skyrim of TES.