Impossible to play a pure Necromancer : V - Skyrim

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Why wouldn't it be?

If you can talk and influence people, why not be able to talk and influence animals too?

If you can talk to dragons, why can;t you talk to animals?

Speech could've had it's own viable playthrough.

Dragons are not animals - they are a sentient race just like the humans and the elves.

And last I checked, bears, wolves and the ret of the beasts in Skyrim have no understanding of any human, elven or any other known language... Wood elves have some limited understanding of the ways of nature, so they can tame them every now and then, but that's about it as far as civilised methodes go... next solution is to start f****ing up with their minds via illusion...

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:52 am

I tried talking to a opossum once, now I have rabies :confused:

its better in the illusion tree

Yeah Khajits and Argonians wouldn't have their own language.

They all speak perfectly accented english.

You can speak to people, dragons, lizard men, and cat men but speaking to animals would be just completely crazy wtfbbqsauce?!?!?!?!

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:21 am

SUMMONING AND RAISING THE DEAD (aka NECROMANCY) ARE 2 DIFFERENT THINGS

I used caps because you seem to miss all the important parts

Summoning UNDEAD from bones you maybe have is one thing you missed also.Again you didn't touch the subject,only my words.Do you need more proof?You are just trying to feel better by "winning internet arguments".

The point is simple.

Is Necromancy a skill?No.

Can you rely on it?Somewhat.

Could it have been better?Tons.

Would you raise a zombie 15 meters afar or summon an Atronach instead?You tell me.

And again i'm still hearing why i can't reanimate or use bones to animate a skeleton.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:57 pm

You can't focus purely on one skill. Period.

/thread.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:56 am

Yeah Khajits and Argonians wouldn't have their own language.

They all speak perfectly accented english.

You can speak to people, dragons, lizard men, and cat men but speaking to animals would be just completely crazy wtfbbqsauce?!?!?!?!

considering they all have a common understanding of the same layman language, whereas animals (except those sign language chimps) have no grasp on the common language, nor does anyone in the world have a grasp on how they communicate (grunts and roars I assume) it does create a language barrier

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:00 am

Summoning UNDEAD from bones you maybe have is one thing you missed also.Again you didn't touch the subject,only my words.Do you need more proof?

It is an oversight that you can't reanimate full skeletons you find in dungeons, I give you that. Any other argument you are making is not viable!

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:52 am

You are just trying to feel better by "winning internet arguments".

Aren't you too? besides I have had a bad day, can I win? please? it's all I can do to make it through

nice strawman btw

necromancy is raising the dead to the undead, in the game it is represented as half the conjuration tree
could it have been better? couldn't it all have been better? at what point of betterness does it become acceptable is perhaps the question one should ask...
I am doing a conjure playthrough, no atronochs needed so far, but thanks for asking

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:31 am

Your view of Necromancy is not "Pure" but "Flawed"

any class or character type, using only 1 skill set is flawed, and just foolish. Archer's use more than just bow skills, Warriors use more than just weapon skills, and Mages use more than just magic skills... is they don't they are Novices and no little about battle.

Where's the thread about not being able to play as a "Pure" Blacksmith or just using Speech skill tree the entire game? :lmao:

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:06 am

considering they all have a common understanding of the same layman language, whereas animals (except those sign language chimps) have no grasp on the common language, nor does anyone in the world have a grasp on how they communicate (grunts and roars I assume) it does create a language barrier

Why can't you have a perk that makes it so your character can speak multiple/a universal language?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:15 pm

It is an oversight that you can't reanimate full skeletons you find in dungeons, I give you that. Any other argument you are making is not viable!

What is not viable?That i was able to summon skeletons previously and now i have to target the corpse from 20 feet away after i switch from 2h to 1h,while i am being chased by 3 dremora and a mage casting fireballs on me?

Meh :/

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:09 pm

Where's the thread about not being able to play as a "Pure" Blacksmith or just using Speech skill tree the entire game? :lmao:

The arguments where made and gave him ideas. Don't encourage him, dude. :wink:

What is not viable?That i was able to summon skeletons previously and now i have to target the corpse from 20 feet away after i switch from 2h to 1h,while i am being chased by 3 dremora and a mage casting fireballs on me?

Meh :/

It still seems as if you don't get the difference between a Summoner and a Necromancer (raising the dead), that were told to you about 5 [censored] times.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:36 am

Why can't you have a perk that makes it so your character can speak multiple/a universal language?

A universal language exists to make it possible for the sentient races to communicate with animals in limited ways. It's called Illusion, and Bosmer have a knack for it too.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Necromancers are not just dudes that raise skeletal armies and whatnot.
Necromancers have power over the forces of life and death, ergo Restoration and Conjuration. Not to mention You can RP Frenzy spells as you inflicting a disease that makes people go crazy or you can use paralyze spells to RP a stop brain function spell

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:50 pm

Why can't you have a perk that makes it so your character can speak multiple/a universal language?

isn't that a little silly? how many fauna are in the game? bears, foxes, rabbits, moths, wolves, hawks, spiders etc. all with a different way of communicating "sub-language" not even a full language

at what level could they communicate back? wouldn't they just say "need food" or "hungry" or "approaching threat to nest" and try to attack you? most animals have a pretty primitive system of communication (besides those sign language monkeys), and they really only "accept" you "ie living among wolves or bears" after being acclimated to you over a period of time, and only the 1 clan of animal you acclimate to, so all wolves in skyrim wouldn't accept you because 1 pack does

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:18 pm

The arguments where made and gave him ideas. Don't encourage him, dude. :wink:

It still seems as if you don't get the difference between a Summoner and a Necromancer (raising the dead), that were told to you about 5 f*ckin times.

Dude seriously,enough with this crap.It doesn't matter if you call it Summoner or Necromancer,the ONLY thing necromancy-like you had was that you could summon skeletons or zombies.That is how necromancy worked THEN.

Also in this game,a necromancer IS a summoner.You are still a conjurer.You don't have access to necromancy elseway.

It doens't freaking matter if you perceive necromancers as people raising the dead with the raise dead spell,a person able to animate a skeleton from the ground(aka below it) would still be considered a necromancer,although technically he summoned it.

Jesus.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:48 am

^This pretty much.

I've thought about trying to do it but it seems impossible.

The major flaw in this is.......get ready!

You need dead bodies to play a necromancer...

How exactly does one roleplay a pure necromancer when they have no dead bodies to work with?

Pure Necromancer.

Pure is the keyword here.

There is no Necromancy. There is Conjuration which includes, but is not limited to, a few necro perks. Conjuration, as a whole skill tree, is perfectly viable. Just like Archery, 1-handed etc.
So you can play a pure Conjurer, but not a pure Necromancer.

Unfortunately, like you said, playing a pure necro here is impossible, but not for the reasons you stated. Its because Skyrim spells do not fit the repertoire of a classic RPG necro, which is why
you either adjust your gameplay and pick up some Destro/Atronach summons to kill stuff or you don't RP a necro.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:20 am

isn't that a little silly? how many fauna are in the game? bears, foxes, rabbits, moths, wolves, hawks, spiders etc. all with a different way of communicating "sub-language" not even a full language

at what level could they communicate back? wouldn't they just say "need food" or "hungry" or "approaching threat to nest" and try to attack you? most animals have a pretty primitive system of communication (besides those sign language monkeys), and they really only "accept" you "ie living among wolves or bears" after being acclimated to you over a period of time, and only the 1 clan of animal you acclimate to, so all wolves in skyrim wouldn't accept you because 1 pack does

Things like "Attack this target" "Defend me" "Follow me" "Go away"

Necromancers are not just dudes that raise skeletal armies and whatnot.
Necromancers have power over the forces of life and death, ergo Restoration and Conjuration. Not to mention You can RP Frenzy spells as you inflicting a disease that makes people go crazy or you can use paralyze spells to RP a stop brain function spell

Didn't I recall a certain solitude questline where you had to kill some "Wolf queen" who used to raise an army of zombies to take over Skyrim?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:26 am

Unfortunately, like you said, playing a pure necro here is impossible, but not for the reasons you stated. Its because Skyrim spells do not fit the repertoire of a classic RPG necro, which is why
you either adjust your gameplay and pick up some Destro/Atronach summons to kill stuff or you don't RP a necro.

This I can relate to.

What you should be raging on about is the removal of Damage Health/Stamina spells!

//edit

@jr

Dude, you are killing me. ^^

@fatalfenrir

Well, you yourself can learn to permanently raise 2 dead bodies. Not exactly a Zombie army, but a Zombie army would ruin even the now bad balancing.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 am

yes, summoning being the key word, now you can raise almost anything in the game back from the dead, before you could conjure a skeleton, ghost or zombie from no where, I prefer the current system

It wasn't from nowhere, in previous game's you summoned existing undead from the Soul Cairn. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Planes_of_Oblivion#Soul_Cairn
It's a plane of Oblivion unaffiliated with any particular Daedric Prince controlled by a race known as the Ideal Masters. The undead you summon are already in existance and originate from there, though you don't have those spells in Skyrim.

It's sort of like a Negative Energy Plane in other settings I think, a major source of undeath and where undeath is the norm.

» Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:26 pm

Things like "Attack this target" "Defend me" "Follow me" "Go away"

Didn't I recall a certain solitude questline where you had to kill some "Wolf queen" who used to raise an army of zombies to take over Skyrim?

I don't think most animals could comprehend "defend me" or "attack that" to a degree high enough and communicable through only their own language, besides can you really "convince" something to end its own life to protect you, isn't it easier to "trick" it using illusion

and yes Potema the wolf queen raised zombies and used necromancy

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:45 am

Dude seriously,enough with this crap.It doesn't matter if you call it Summoner or Necromancer,the ONLY thing necromancy-like you had was that you could summon skeletons or zombies.That is how necromancy worked THEN.

Now, you can summon dead out of nowhere.

Call of Valor (Shout)
Summon Spectral Assasin (Power)
Summon Arniel's Shade (Spell)

So... what say you?

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:47 am

Didn't I recall a certain solitude questline where you had to kill some "Wolf queen" who used to raise an army of zombies to take over Skyrim?

And how is that relevant? She had a normal army before that, wasn't opposed to using spells from different schools of magic and so on...

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 am

It wasn't from nowhere, in previous game's you summoned existing undead from the Soul Cairn. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Planes_of_Oblivion#Soul_Cairn
It's a plane of Oblivion unaffiliated with any particular Daedric Prince controlled by a race known as the Ideal Masters. The undead you summon are already in existance and originate from there, though you don't have those spells in Skyrim.

It's sort of like a Negative Energy Plane in other settings I think, a major source of undeath and where undeath is the norm.

interesting, is there a book or something that explains that?

and when I said no where I was thinking some random plane of oblivion, but it stills pop into nirn from not being there before, whereas raising a dead through necromancy would only pop in a soul and use an existing body, or perhaps using the casters soul, not sure how it works in the lore, would be interesting to find out

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:26 am

Things like "Attack this target" "Defend me" "Follow me" "Go away"

Didn't I recall a certain solitude questline where you had to kill some "Wolf queen" who used to raise an army of zombies to take over Skyrim?

Yes, Queen Potema reanimated dead bodies. She didn't pull them out of her bum though. She needed vessels in which to implant her necromantic magicks into in order to reanimate them.

» Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:05 pm

Now, you can summon dead out of nowhere.

Call of Valor (Shout)
Summon Spectral Assasin (Power)
Summon Arniel's Shade (Spell)

So... what say you?

I say that i never used the word dead.I used skeleton or zombie.A necromancer's trademark is skeletons and zombies,typically being raised from the grave,although the reanimate dead body works.I never heard a necromancer that involved himself in ghosts.Ghosts and shades were originally meant to be illusion's thing,at least i believe so.

Also,i say that you have totally missed the point.The point is simple.I need a dead body to use my necromancy skills.I can't reanimate skeletons.I can't make skeletons "appear" out of nowhere in the game.Even if it means i have collected all the bones and bonemeals from the game.

By the way,spectral assasin is not available for everyone.