Thanks Tdroid. Thanks to the poster that had the info about how everything started. This is like a combo of the US Civil War and WW 2. And don't forget there are haters on both sides of the fence. I wish in some ways there was a way that our dragon born could stop and have both the empire and the stormcloaks to sit down and talk nicely with each other.

wow bill o reily i didnt know you play skyrim

Exactly.

Like I said: they leave that up to the imagination.

because verbal slander completely invalidates Madcat221's point.

No problem. Well, unless it was sarcastic because then it's kudos to your for fooling me
Neither side seem to remember that one can settle such disputes without was frikkin war. For example, would the Empire loose anything if they made Ulfric High King, but at the cost of an alliance against the Thalmor when the next war broke out? Both sides would win.

The Empire would lose a significant level of influence in Skyrim by not having an easily controlled puppet on the throne. Meanwhile the Empire is not in a position to give into Ulfric's demands without denouncing Skyrim as an Imperial territory entirely, and neither Ulfric or his followers are likely to give in. Ulfric is unyielding in his demands, the Empire is unyielding of their power. Both parties have their ugly, uncompromising side, which is what prevents a peaceful solution I think.

I still say the ideal outcome for the sake of Tamriel would be a de facto independent Skyrim in an alliance with the other provinces opposed to the Thalmor.

Ra'vhash would agree with you, but he's a little more concerned with the amount of slain Khajiit he is finding in Bandit Hideouts.

My khajiit has done the same thing.




Go visit the Jarl of Falkreath seeing as you are on the imperial side

@Ra'vhash I feel the same, I once saw a entire slaughtered caravan of the beautiful khajiit people, and khajiit was saddened to find their bodys.
then iProceeded to slaughter every Bandit I found near this tragic spot and enjoyed decapitating them.

Germany was also in pretty bad shape because of the treaty and the effects of WWI as well. If Britain had put their damn foot down Hitler may have backed down.

Germany was in much better shape than Britain. But we're not here to discuss the rise of Naziism, I was just using it as a real world comparison to the appeasemant of the Thalmor.

They aren't saying Skyrim is for the Nords as much as they're saying Skyrim belongs to the Nords, not the Empire.

I want the people claiming Ulfric is a racist to prove, with in-game evidence, that he truly hates anyone who isn't a Nord. I'm sick of all this over-the-top crap. Just because you love the Empire from previous games doesn't mean they can do no wrong and should be supported.

I ask you this: were you in a similar position in real life as you were in the beginning of the game (right after you get off the carriage), which side would you join? Also, take into account the events that occur after first entering Solitude.

This is a skewed thought. If you do not know the entirety of the subject you are talking about, then don't try to compare it to something completely different.

That is A biased opinion, He commited captial punishment, He betrayed the head of state and got what he deserved! The damm Nords started the empire, They can stop whineing that they want to be freed from it.
I personally think that the Stormcloaks and Empire should Tag team the Thalmors asses.

Guess what? General Tullius was 15 feet away and obviously didn't care about some innocent being executed. That's right. The guy you serve after joining the Imperial Legion did not give a single [censored] that you were going to have your head chopped off. Not a single, solitary [censored] was given. Not one.

I guess in the end I hate the Thalmor too much for me to justify siding with the Imperials.

Plus, Ulric's voice is smexy

Wrong. Ulfric reminds me of Hitler and germany's reaction to the Treaty versailles, Its the same with the White-gold Treaty, They complain and whine, Dispite the fact that the Thalmor would have killed everyone else if the treaty was sighned.

Does it really matter? The Empire wants to kill someone that didn't commit a crime, and you're okay with them executing the one guy who said, "No, I don't think that's right"?

High King Torygg agreed to the challenge. High King Torygg. In Skyrim, his word is law. By agreeing to the duel, he made it completely legal for either of them to kill each other. The Empire had no right to reverse that decision.

He assisted A "Assassin" Escape after "Murdering" The head of state, This makes him a accomplice.
And Yes the Empire had every right to Label Ulfric as the "Killer of kings", The Empire has control over Skyrim, Like it or not, The empire has "Supreme" power over Skyrim. And I might seem rather Harsh but if we followed everyones culture we would be having "Tribal sacrifice", Tribal canibilsm", And OVER "Twisted things" Happening around the world.

Hammerfell left the Empire and drove out the Aldmeri Dominion. Why do you seem to think such a thing is impossible for Skyrim to accomplish as well? Why do you think Skyrim absolutely has to be part of the Empire, no matter what? It doesn't matter what Ulfric wants. Even if he is the face and head of the rebellion, his actions or beliefs do not condemn every Nord in Skyrim fighting for independence.

The Aldmeri Dominion would have defeated the Empire, not everyone. Even though the Empire signed the WGC, both sides were left devastated because of the war. If the Empire granted Skyrim indepedence and convinced Hammerfell to join them as an ally rather than serve them, they might actually stand a better chance against the Aldmeri Dominion than if they were to continue a civil war and ignore Hammerfell.

1. Ulfric did not "assassinate" anyone. He did not "murder" anyone. He challenged the High King to a duel, who accepted, and defeated him.
2. The Empire most likely did not have complete control over Skyrim. If they had, there would be no need for a "puppet king" that they control from behind the scenes.
3. What are you talking about? That's a HUGE stretch and really has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

The rebels are divideing us, We should stand united, Instead we have 3 separate factions who basically hate each others guts.

United? The Empire wants to control other provinces. They want to be in charge. Hammerfell, Skyrim, and the Empire should instead be allies (at least until the Aldmeri Dominion is defeated).

The way things are going, both the Empire and Skyrim are going to become severely weakened and Hammerfell isn't going to give a [censored]. The Aldmeri Dominion would be able to take the first two out and slowly chip away at the third after they've gained more power.

.. and you're willing to risk all that just so the Empire can "win" and the "murdering racist" Ulfric loses? Hah.

• "A murderer of an important person in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons." Ulfric suprised him with the offer of a duel, Ulfric killed him for "Kingship" And also he needed A symbol to send A message,
  
• The High king was known to be On Ulfrics side, And several people state that he would have sided with ulfric if Ulfric asked.
  
• I was just giving examples of A few "Civilizations" "Special" Culture.

Awesome thread - and kudus for not letting it degenerate into an argument. I have learned a lot, not having played the earlier games.

Thanks,
R

My Nordic warrior is Completley Loyal to The empire and Titus Mede II, He would do anything in A attempt to Preserve it.