I am sorry. I don't like the fact that other people can state that the south is raciest and I don't like the fact that only one side is being presented here.

If the threat is great enough, you learn to make common cause. I could cite some RL examples but there's too much of that already in this thread. There are disadvantages to being under a central command that a) you mistrust, or b ) which simply has poor leadership. Cohesion doesn't come only from the top down, it comes from the secondary commanders being competent and morale and discipline high in the ranks. Look around Tamriel. The empire is not doing so well at motivating anyone but Cyrodiil, and it should stick to Cyrodiil.

They may have been in better shape, but my point was that if Britain put their foot down Germany might not have advanced so fast or at all seeing as they weren't in great shape themselves. I know that this isn't about the rise of Nazism, the point I'm trying to make is that appeasemant often does more harm then it does good. In this case if the Imperials had gotten their act together during the war with the Thalmor they might have been able to win. Instead of continuing the war they decided to sign the treaty and become the Thalmor's [censored]. If they were waiting to recover in order to rebel against the Thalmor they're pretty much screwing themselves over by wasting their resources on the Stormcloaks.

yes, and i could cite real life examples where the opposite happens. But, i agree, there's too much RL in here.

and yes, I agree, it's the intermediate officers have the biggest impact, don't get me wrong. But you can have multiple intermediate officers under one supreme commander.

and yes, there's still poor leadership, and no, such intermixing doesn't necessarily promote better cohesion, BUT:

1) poor leadership is one issue. The fewer the complications preventing an army from fighting effectively, the better. Plus, poor leadership can be replaced.

2) uniformity breeds a better soldier. Period. The more uniform and disperesed different groups are in a force, there's a greater chance (not a guarantee; we can make no guarantees here) that each man and woman will feel like part of a large body rather than a smaller group in a large body.

3) where's your proof that the empire is not doing so well at motivation outside of cyrodill? Where do we ever encounter Imperial officers who actually have some development other than Rikke and Tullius?

Where's my proof? Dude, there is no empire any longer. Everyone is gone but Skyrim and High Rock, and Skyrim is in civil war.

Largley due to the actions of the Thalmor as opposed to a general dislike of the Empire. Elsweyr and Valenwood as a result of Thalmor shock tactics, the loss of Hammerfell and the Skyrim rebellion was due to the terms of the White Gold Concordat. Hammerfell didn't even want to leave the Empire, and felt betrayed when it was renounced as an Imperial province.

I'd feel betrayed if a powerful ally said "you're on your own now" after such a war, regardless of how I felt about the Empire.

the Empire may be down to a mere 3 provinces, but it is still an empire. it can rebuild itself.

However, I do agree that in the next installment of TES, the Empire will be a part of the past that everyone harkens to when describing "The good ole days", much the way europe felt during the renaissance.

Ulfric's beef with Tullius is that Tullius did not recognize Nord tradition, according to which after the duel Ulfric should be the High King. There is going to be bloodshed in Skyrim anyway, truce or no truce, until there is a high king that is recognized by all the jarls. It is their way.

But now Emperor Mede II is dead at bequest of the High Council through Motierre via the Dark Brotherhood. So there will be a new Emperor chosen. I guess we have to watch for white smoke (Catholic thing here for the Pope) from the window since the dragonfires no longer light for the emperor.

Latest posts have mentioned the group of youth growing up with hatred for the oppressors in Skyrim, yet there is also a generation that has grown up with a hatred for this same oppressor in the Empire. The Nords will hash out their high king fight, and the Empire is going to select a new Emperor, and probably one who is going to be promising to expel the Thalmor. Yet I don't think there is anyone who is strong enough to do this unless it is the Dovahkiin in the final DLC for the game, which would unite Skyrim and the Empire regardless of the outcome of the civil war.

And in TES VI you find a book that generalizes a struggle in Skyrim in which both sides got bloody noses, but in the end it was unified by the Dovahkiin who then marched into the Imperial City and became Emperor, and led the Imperial forces against the Thalmor army from the back of a dragon and drove them out of Cyrodiil. Well it does make for a good story.

We dont know if theres Another mede, Titus II Could have Multiple Family members.

No more Empire. It's narrative is done. I liked it, but i'm still going to compare it to rotten food.

It's time for something different, I feel.

yeah, as much as I love the empire, it's time is done after the events of skyrim. It will probably battle it out with the dominion in one hell of an awesome war, and then one or both sides will collapse into provincial kingdoms.

True, but Motierre was a bit too joyful when you returned to inform him that the task was complete. "You have done the Empire a greater service than you realize." IIRC, since I just did the assassination last night. This implied to me that the council will have to select a new line and that there's a hard line faction in the council that wants the Thalmor out now.

That aside, if the Empire falls before the Dominion does, things are going to get very bad for all of Tamriel. Including Skyrim.

Edit: Okay, I edited it to address your edit.

Gah, Crimson! I changed my mind and edited my post for a reason! .... Change it!

I don't mind it that much. Really, the Nordic Nine is different from the Imperial Nine, despite what Froki says. Kynareth, Talos, and Shor are still the most popular. Mara and Dibella get Temples. And Arkay, but IIRC even the Crowns liked him.

The fact that the rest don't show the Nords really don't care too much about them.

No. They would not aid High Rock or Cyrodiil. Even if Ulfric himself favoured that action, too many of his Jarls and advisors would be against anything that aided the Empire regardless of the Thalmor threat. The Empire murdered the sons and daughters of Skyrim, they cut down healers alongside swordsmen and various influential Stormcloaks will be resentful for a long time to come. It's possible that Ulfric might choose to shelter those who turn from the Empire, but that's as far as it'd go until the Thalmor directly threatened Skyrim.

I do think the Empire's dissolution is unfortunately inevitable simply because it makes for a better story in the future (a graver threat makes any hero set against it seem more heroic), but I don't think the dissolution of the Empire is in any way a desirable outcome. Unless, of course, you support the destruction of the possibility of men and the Thalmor quest for immortality.

High King's orders > jarl's orders

I'm also not convinced most Stormcloak jarls actually have something personal against Cyrodiil. Maybe Skald, but he's an idiot anyway. And I suppose Dengeir would probably think it was some sort of trap.
People here seem to think a political struggle necessarily has to involve some deep, personal resentment. It doesn't. This war isn't about Skyrim hating Cyrodiil or vica versa, but about who rules Skyrim.

Ulfric himself undermines that rather spectacularly and let's not forget that some of the Jarls who support his cause believe Ulfric himself to be selfish and merely using the Talos cause to further his own aim of becoming High King. Without the backing of his people, a King's authority is limited.

Besides, with his own country recovering from a civil war, it's doubtable whether he'd be able to provide meaningful support anyway. Not that he would want to. He's apathetic towards the plight of non-nords in his own hold, why on earth should he risk his people for the sake of an Empire that slaughtered his people (the people he claims are his very reason for fighting in his very first dialogues in Windhelm), banished his god and very nearly ended his life?

Just as the Thalmor adore the idea of their enemies fighting, I can't see Ulfric seeing the conflict between Cryodiil and the Dominion to be anything less than an absolute blessing. If Cryodiil won, the Thalmor would have taken significant damage. If Cyrodiil lost, they'd still do significant damage to the Thalmor and conquest would force the Thalmor to further spread their resources in order to maintain their new territory.

hes not apathtic to people who help him, he is to people who will sit on their asses and do nothing but complain. that aside, i doubt the recovery will be all that long as in there wont be any disention because all the jarls who would have gone differently got replaced who will back Ulfric, also the stormcloaks was nowhere near even half of the population, most of the population sat on the sidelines and will follow whoever is high king. Besides a independent Skyrim can be good for cyrodill, Cryodill wotn be spread out to thin like it wasand it can focus on strengthening its own borders and such, AND when cryodill does go to war there will be a major difference in how its played out, instead of just the Thalmor atking the country and the people fighting back to defend their lands, while all of thats going on Thalmor's island is gonna have a visit from soem rightously pissed off Nords that there ferociousness scares the bejezezes outta most people...the nords are gonna have a heyday ont he elves homeland while its atking on multiple sides. The brutality will be glorious..ahhh

TBH i really dotn think Ulfrics gonna have that big of a problme with the Empire if they pretty much just reconize that Skyrim is free from their control nand not try to take over them....then i could really see Skyrim fighting along side the Empire against the Thalmor no prob, an dif the empire trys to pull a fast oen and try to take it over while thye are fighting...wellll i really see Skyrim invading Cryodill and actually taking it and forming a new empire without a doubt. Skyrim get the hammerfell people in it and rebuild it to have the glory days come back again.

Ulfric not coming to the aid of Cyrodiil? There are a lot of ethnic Nords in northern Cyrodiil. A lot of them. And think of this. He could get to be the hero. Those on the Elder Council sound like they're pretty glad Mede II is out of the way. He was a weak ruler. The way he begged to have my assassin kill the one who contracted us as his dying wish. Pitiful. Cannot do Titus Mede II. It's nothing personal. Just business.

I think the treaty is going to be broken. It's time to whup some Thalmor backside.

Ulfric has made it very clear that any Jarls that oppose him will be replaced, and if he is High King he would be right to do so.

First playtrough i supported the stomrcloacks, which i regret, I would not say say they are racists, but not far from, you hear them allways about, "Nords best that and Nords best this".
Plus I only play Khajit or Argonian, and if you remember these beast races, were never well accepted in Cyrodil too.
I wished Bethesda had left us a neutral choose, or maybe help the foresworn...

If the Empire was done, then Bethesda would be more clear about it.

For the love of Talos, please stop trying to predict the future and just play the game.

Please. I think it's cool that people can see virtues on each side, but once it gets into reading the future or the minds of writers, I wish some of you would just stop. It totally defeats the purpose of roleplaying. This is a platform for your own storytelling, more or less. Not a book being dictated to you, where the "true objective of game" is guessing the "truth". It seems like that's how some people want to play. There is no truth, except your own.