[SEXY QUEEN]

@mr bigglesworth. So bethesda haven't got to apologize for giving ps3 users a faulty product? Or giving out patches months and months later then other platforms?

I'll leave pc out of this for a minute.

Xbox gets fixes/patches straight away while ps3 has to wait 6 months sometimes more for the same thing?

Xbox gets all dlc straight away while ps3 has to wait a long time for a dlc sometimes they are broken (fallout) sometimes there's no dlc (oblivion) leaving timed/payed exclusives out of this too.

Then there's the slow/non communication.

That is not real support.

Im happy to wait for DG for ps3 if not I would just buy it for my pc or be even sad an buy another console just for this but lol no.

Although this is the DG release thread but like I've stated before people are now going/sharing by previous track record with beth and ps3 and Dawnguard has probably made the final straw for ps3.

Some could argue you don't like it don't buy the games.. Fair point but it should be if ya can't make it work don't release it at all.

[Oyuki Manson Lavey]

Some posts went away. If you can't civilly discuss this, then don't post anything.

[Dean]

Many of you complain Bethesda doesn't support the PS3 users. You want better support but what EXACTLY do you want?
Of course you want the game and all DLCs to run perfectly on the PS3 but that doesn't seem to be possible. It might just be impossible to squeeze any more of a huge, dynamic virtual world into the severely memory limited PS3. Now what?

This massive world excuse is too tired to bother refuting - so I won't even bother. They have chosen the design and implementation of Skyrim - all the while fully knowing the PS3 architecture and specifications. It is really all on the engineering team then that it doesn't work.

If they tell you the DLC will never come because they can't get it to work properly, you will complain you don't get it.
If they release the DLC as it is, you will complain it doesn't work properly.
If they try to find a way to get it to work after all, as they are doing now, you complain it takes too long.

You'll be upset and angry no matter what Bethesda does.

At this point you're right.

Todd Howard, Pete Hines and ___ Grandstaff could show up at my doorstep with a shiny new copy of Skyrim for PC and a rig to run it on - free of charge - and I would still be pissed.

They have willfully deceived customers on many occasions - from Todd Howard's remarks about rapid patching to Pete Hines reporting the PS3 is on par with the Xbox and Gstaff's lie about releasing patch 1.6 for all platforms three months before PS3 users got it. There is no way that for a project of this magnitude the project lead and head of marketing are so disconnected that these problems were not fully vetted in high-level meetings. Those guys don't live in a vacuum and can see all the youtube footage of their work.

Looking back the best option would have been to never release the game for the PS3 at all.
But that's too late now. I'm sure Bethesda believed it would work well enough despite the lousy memory situation on the PS3 and many PS3 players, who had little problems, would probably agree. But now they are aware of the the severe problems that some PS3-players had and they have saves from affected players that probably showed problems they never experienced or expected.

They knew about this long ago, beginning with FO3:GOTY and the most recent insult was FONV:UE which was released after Skyrim and suffered the same problem.

Meanwhile, Pete Hines was refuting Josh Sawyer's (Obsidian) claims about engine level issues and the way the FONV DLC sharted on the PS3. This should tell you at least three things:
#1 Bethesda was aware of the issues at least when FONV DLC was being sold - but still sold FONV:UE with no qualms.

#2 that Bethesda either did little/nothing to fix the problem - but still released the game.

#3 Bethesda tried to fix the engine problems from FONV and couldn't - but still released the game.

Now they use that knowledge to test Dawnguard and have to realize it will cause more players even more problems. They decide not to release it in it's current state. They tell you about the problem and try to fix it.

What, should we all be all forgiving and grateful for them finally coming forward nine months after selling us something not fit for its intended purpose and telling us we are pretty well up a creek?

No, I think not.

So really, what DO you want them to do?

to learn from past mistakes
to be honest
to have integrity
to apologize
to offer refunds and/or exchanges for other titles or the same title on another platform

If you can look at Skyrim in a vaccuum perhaps one could say maybe they didn't know or understand the issues, although given the AAA status and attention devoted to the release I think thats more than a bit naive.

However, if the entirety of Bethesda's PS3 releases are considered a rational deduction of their behaviors can arrive only at single explanation for the state we are in: greed. The time to make allowances for Bethesda's technical mistakes is past, this process has been recirculated since at least FO3 and Bethesda continues to dance the same way. Only now the marketing and lies are more aggressive. This is not a matter of good intentions falling short but of malice and greed.

[rheanna bruining]

I love how people keep using the big world excuse. That's funny because 4js studio's had no problem with Oblivion.

4j had a year to work on the Oblivion port though. I'm in full agreement with some of what you said though -- advocating the "do it right or don't do it at all" policy -- but the 'big world excuse' is a valid one when having to develop on three platforms at once while starring down at a deadline.

[Jessica White]

I love how people keep using the big world excuse. That's funny because 4js studio's had no problem with Oblivion.

I don't know about the PS3 versions but I can tell you this: I use many mods on the PC-versions of both games, mostly high-res textures. I probably have many more mods for Oblivion including window lighting, enhanced visibility of nearly all distant objects, many other graphic enhancements and I have all Oblivion DLCs and Add-Ons installed.
But still Oblivion never uses more than 900MB of RAM while Skyrim without any DLCs usually needs between 1.2 and 1.6 GB RAM and often comes close to 2GB memory usage.
I think it's save to assume that the much more handcrafted world of Skyrim needs more RAM on the consoles as well while the more generic, computed world of Oblivion was easier to port to the PS3.

I want Beth to stop being cheap and actually learn how to program and optimize a game on the PS3 or send it to someone who can like they did with Oblivion.

Have you ever considered that they might know what they're doing and that Skyrim's resource requirements simply push the PS3 to it's limit and sometimes beyond?

I would like to add this is the PS3 DG release thread not the Bethesda Defense thread all your post is going to do is draw a possible flame war of course you probably knew that and that's why you posted it.

My post was not intended to be flame bait. I agree with you that it might have been best to never release Skyrim for the PS3. But it's out and now they have to make the best of it.
So I simply wonder what PS3 players want because I have the feeling that nothing that Bethesda can realistically do would satisfy you...

[Sylvia Luciani]

There are some thoughts about this on gaming websites and IGN talks about the problem. While it isn't really anything new If anyone wants to check this out they can. http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/09/10/game-scoop-episode-259-part-1, skip to 8:52 to get to the Skyrim part.

[Melly Angelic]

They knew about this long ago, beginning with FO3:GOTY and the most recent insult was FONV:UE which was released after Skyrim and suffered the same problem.

Meanwhile, Pete Hines was refuting Josh Sawyer's (Obsidian) claims about engine level issues and the way the FONV DLC sharted on the PS3. This should tell you at least three things:
#1 Bethesda was aware of the issues at least when FONV DLC was being sold - but still sold FONV:UE with no qualms.

#2 that Bethesda either did little/nothing to fix the problem - but still released the game.

#3 Bethesda tried to fix the engine problems from FONV and couldn't - but still released the game.
[...]
If you can look at Skyrim in a vaccuum perhaps one could say maybe they didn't know or understand the issues, although given the AAA status and attention devoted to the release I think thats more than a bit naive.

However, if the entirety of Bethesda's PS3 releases are considered a rational deduction of their behaviors can arrive only at single explanation for the state we are in: greed. The time to make allowances for Bethesda's technical mistakes is past, this process has been recirculated since at least FO3 and Bethesda continues to dance the same way. Only now the marketing and lies are more aggressive. This is not a matter of good intentions falling short but of malice and greed.

If you knew all that, why did you still buy the PS3 version of Skyrim?

[Johnny]

If you knew all that, why did you still buy the PS3 version of Skyrim?

maybe it was that he hoped that it would be different?....

[Joanne Crump]

If you knew all that, why did you still buy the PS3 version of Skyrim?

Some of us didn't learn 'all this' until after we bought Skyrim on PS3.

For those that did know it is still not suitable to place blame on the consumer, who was hearing things like 'Great parity' and 'PS3 is getting tons of attention' from the Vice President of Public Relations.

Bethesda is culpable here - exclusively. It was them and not the consumers who profited through the sale and distribution of a product not fit for its intended use.

[Nicholas C]

How is that a logically invalid argument?

Oh well, at least I got a laugh out of you pointing out a 'fallacy' then quoting one.


Also, Bethesda has nothing to apologize for, self entitlement again.

PS3 customers paid the same price for Skyrim as XBox 360 customers and PC platform gamers but the PS3 version has the least optimized, most problematic port of the Skyrim game AND it has the longest delayed DLC releases of the 3 platforms on top of all that.

Because PS3 gamers paid the same amount of money, they have every right to be upset because they got a comparatively inferior product.

Although Bethesda technically does not have to apologize or communicate to the PS3 gamer base for what has happened and IS happening with Skyrim and it's DLCs, NOT doing so will risk alienating those players who have to suffer through the most inferior port of their Skyrim product!

It's not self entitlement on the part of the PS3/Skyrim gamer base, it's the expectation of the same gaming experience (minus whatever "timed exclusive" DLC contracts may have been made with the other platforms) for the same amount of money that has ALREADY been paid forward!

I am a PS3/Bethesda gamer since I purchased Oblivion GOTY Edition. PS3 gamers in general have coped with the following:

• Missing DLC content for Oblivion
  
• Long waits for "timed exclusives" DLCs for Fallout 3 (The last DLC was created for XBOX360 and the PC BEFORE the first one was created for the PS3)
  
• Fallout New Vegas had a ray of hope since only one "timed exclusive" DLC, Dead Money was released for the XBOX 360

Despite all those, "shortcomings" Bethesda has delivered, to me at least a great PS3 gaming experience and at the very least has delivered as promised on all DLC content of the above games.

Although I'm not a huge fan of being on the "shaft" end of the "timed exclusive" deal, I understand the business end of it. But I also recognize it as being "bad for business" when a company fails to deliver on it's deadline, practices minimal communication with the fans who were "slighted", and comes off minimally, almost completely unapologetic towards those fans. If Bethesda can't deliver what they had promised in a timely fashion, they really need to work on their public relations if they want to continue keeping PS3 gamers as fans of their products and their brand!!!

[Kirsty Collins]

If you knew all that, why did you still buy the PS3 version of Skyrim?

They were expecting different results and I don't blame them. Especially when Pete Hines himself says the Ps3 version is on par with the 360 version.

[Kerri Lee]

I don't know about the PS3 versions but I can tell you this: I use many mods on the PC-versions of both games, mostly high-res textures. I probably have many more mods for Oblivion including window lighting, enhanced visibility of nearly all distant objects, many other graphic enhancements and I have all Oblivion DLCs and Add-Ons installed.
But still Oblivion never uses more than 900MB of RAM while Skyrim without any DLCs usually needs between 1.2 and 1.6 GB RAM and often comes close to 2GB memory usage.
I think it's save to assume that the much more handcrafted world of Skyrim needs more RAM on the consoles as well while the more generic, computed world of Oblivion was easier to port to the PS3.


Have you ever considered that they might know what they're doing and that Skyrim's resource requirements simply push the PS3 to it's limit and sometimes beyond?

They could of easily countered the RAM problem if they would have coded the game for the PS3 the right way. Beth is just to lazy or cheap to change the way the game is coded they wanted to take the xbox code they used and cram it into the PS3 without modifiying it. Like the guy on the video said we don't need the game to remember everything if they would of cut down on a lot of that stuff the game needs to remember then the PS3 version would run a lot better. I couldn't care less if the game remember's stuff left laying around on the ground like thing's you knock off table's, weapon's, and stuff like that if it reset every 3 day's when I returned I wouldn't care if it would make the game run better.

[Samantha hulme]

If you knew all that, why did you still buy the PS3 version of Skyrim?

A couple reasons:
We were led to believe thing with Skyrim would be different and that the ps3 version was on par with Xbox version.

I couldn't afford a high end pc or an Xbox so if I wanted more elder scrolls ps3 was my only choice.

[Alexandra walker]

They could of easily countered the RAM problem if they would have coded the game for the PS3 the right way. Beth is just to lazy or cheap to change the way the game is coded they wanted to take the xbox code they used and cram it into the PS3 without modifiying it.

These Bethesda RPGs consist of three parts: The basic game engine which includes an environment to run complex scripts. This basic engine might not be as highly optimized as some products developed exclusively for the PS3 but it is written directly and specifically for each platform. Otherwise it wouldn't work at all.
However, projects like this are usually not written in machine language but in a higher programing language like C++. Languages like that put a layer of abstraction between the code you write and the hardware. That also allows developers to use portions of the code on all systems while other parts have to be written specifically for each platform. Finally a compiler creates the machine code and also applies machine specific optimization to data and control constructs of the programing language.

The other two parts are Scripts and Data like 3d models, textures, and so on. Scripts define much of the game's logic, including dialogue, NPC behavior, quests and many more things. They are shared across all platforms as is the data which is usually only converted to platform specific formats.

Like the guy on the video said we don't need the game to remember everything if they would of cut down on a lot of that stuff the game needs to remember then the PS3 version would run a lot better. I couldn't care less if the game remember's stuff left laying around on the ground like thing's you knock off table's, weapon's, and stuff like that if it reset every 3 day's when I returned I wouldn't care if it would make the game run better.

It wouldn't because the game already DOES that. Even on the PC. Many places reset after a few days. But you still have to save data for the time until they do reset. Or how would you like it if you finish a large dungeon, go to the next city to sell stuff and come back right away only to find everything had already been reset as if you where never there?
And many other things, quest related data or relationships with NPC simply can't reset or the whole game world would no longer function...

[Rob Smith]

They were expecting different results and I don't blame them. Especially when Pete Hines himself says the Ps3 version is on par with the 360 version.

We were led to believe thing with Skyrim would be different and that the ps3 version was on par with Xbox version.

From what I read the game is on par with the Xbox version... until you run into memory related problems that get worse the longer you play.
Problems that made the game almost unplayable to some while others never encountered them at all.

[ezra]

Long waits for "timed exclusives" DLCs for Fallout 3 (The last DLC was created for XBOX360 and the PC BEFORE the first one was created for the PS3)

Not to mention the repeatedly pushed back release dates. What they gave two, three false release dates for the ps3 DLC before it finally came, now that generated anger. Made what we have now look like a love fest.

[Robert Bindley]

They could of easily countered the RAM problem if they would have coded the game for the PS3 the right way. Beth is just to lazy or cheap to change the way the game is coded they wanted to take the xbox code they used and cram it into the PS3 without modifiying it. Like the guy on the video said we don't need the game to remember everything if they would of cut down on a lot of that stuff the game needs to remember then the PS3 version would run a lot better. I couldn't care less if the game remember's stuff left laying around on the ground like thing's you knock off table's, weapon's, and stuff like that if it reset every 3 day's when I returned I wouldn't care if it would make the game run better.

Its not that they didn't know or failed to try and mitigate the engine's behavior on the PS3. They tried to implement some very aggressive swap system. In my opinion this was at best a symptomatic treatment and not addressing the problem, that being the memory allocation and of the engine. And at any rate, while they did try they have certainly failed which is what is more important, because their failure is what we PS3 customers have bought.

And they took this approach knowing full well the size of swap files would vary significantly. The PS3 operating system allocates about 11% of free space for a system cache. You can imagine how quickly that dwindles on some peoples very full consoles. They also knew that sometimes that memory would be paging on/off very slow, old rotating media through a sata-i controller and they also knew about the object size memory limitations due to the PS3 SPE's DMA addressing system.

From what I read the game is on par with the Xbox version... until you run into memory related problems that get worse the longer you play.
Problems that made the game almost unplayable to some while others never encountered them at all.

Saying the game is 'on par with the Xbox' and then 'run into memory related problems' is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Especially since the idea here is to play the game for a long time.

If the product is too unstable to apply the anticipated and advertised add-on content, that the Xbox360 already has, then we can categorically say they are not 'on par'

Furthermore, this parity assertion fails the 'eye test' for most of us who have seen/played both versions. Does the Xbox suffer from some problems, yes. Are they as consistent, reproducible and aggravating as the PS3 version? I would say definitely not.

[Isabel Ruiz]

In regards to my former post on page 3, my apologies to all who got offended, and I especially apologize to the Moderators for breaking the rules. It will not happen again.

[bimsy]

These Bethesda RPGs consist of three parts: The basic game engine which includes an environment to run complex scripts. This basic engine might not be as highly optimized as some products developed exclusively for the PS3 but it is written directly and specifically for each platform. Otherwise it wouldn't work at all.
However, projects like this are usually not written in machine language but in a higher programing language like C++. Languages like that put a layer of abstraction between the code you write and the hardware. That also allows developers to use portions of the code on all systems while other parts have to be written specifically for each platform. Finally a compiler creates the machine code and also applies machine specific optimization to data and control constructs of the programing language.

The other two parts are Scripts and Data like 3d models, textures, and so on. Scripts define much of the game's logic, including dialogue, NPC behavior, quests and many more things. They are shared across all platforms as is the data which is usually only converted to platform specific formats.


It wouldn't because the game already DOES that. Even on the PC. Many places reset after a few days. But you still have to save data for the time until they do reset. Or how would you like it if you finish a large dungeon, go to the next city to sell stuff and come back right away only to find everything had already been reset as if you where never there?
And many other things, quest related data or relationships with NPC simply can't reset or the whole game world would no longer function...

Friends I am very sorry for the (nearly unforgivable) wait you are experiencing with Dawnguard. Some of my best friends are on PS3 and I know they are dying to get to this (imho very good) DLC. I understand your anger - I would be angry if there was this kind of problem for 360. Computer programs, as Mav99 has observed, are complex and as a programmer I can assure you that the greater the complexity the greater the bugs. The simple programs I wrote in Pascal or Basic (twenty years ago) sometimes did -very- strange things. That games like Skyrim or Assassin's Creed have as few bugs as they do is a testimony to their company's QA department.

Anyway. What I'm trying to say is having 360 players exclaim "ur being silly" and PS3 players decrying hate isn't going to help anyone. Try to understand why the PS players are so upset, and try to understand that Bethesda is not evil-incarnate. Dawnguard is a great DLC but its not worth ripping each other apart. Let's try to support each other in this and hopefully the code-wizards will find a way to fix the problem.

Bless you all.

[daniel royle]

These Bethesda RPGs consist of three parts: The basic game engine which includes an environment to run complex scripts. This basic engine might not be as highly optimized as some products developed exclusively for the PS3 but it is written directly and specifically for each platform. Otherwise it wouldn't work at all.
However, projects like this are usually not written in machine language but in a higher programing language like C++. Languages like that put a layer of abstraction between the code you write and the hardware. That also allows developers to use portions of the code on all systems while other parts have to be written specifically for each platform. Finally a compiler creates the machine code and also applies machine specific optimization to data and control constructs of the programing language.

The other two parts are Scripts and Data like 3d models, textures, and so on. Scripts define much of the game's logic, including dialogue, NPC behavior, quests and many more things. They are shared across all platforms as is the data which is usually only converted to platform specific formats.


It wouldn't because the game already DOES that. Even on the PC. Many places reset after a few days. But you still have to save data for the time until they do reset. Or how would you like it if you finish a large dungeon, go to the next city to sell stuff and come back right away only to find everything had already been reset as if you where never there?
And many other things, quest related data or relationships with NPC simply can't reset or the whole game world would no longer function...

I didn't say relationship's and stuff like that I said all the stupid items that lay on the ground like fruit, tableware, stuff like that and I'm talking about in the outside world not just indoors I know indoor area's reset. As far as I know if you kill enemies in the open world the weapon's don't dissapear they lay there forever same with arrow's shot. If stuff like that cleaned up better I'm sure it would help save RAM. Actually I know it would help because that is what 4js did on Oblivion arrow's dissapeared after so many got shot and item's laying around in the open world dissapeared after a while.

[Justin]

.

Saying the game is 'on par with the Xbox' and then 'run into memory related problems' is kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Especially since the idea here is to play the game for a long time.

This. I ran into those lag problems early on. It turned into a game of play Skyrim until lag then stop playing until the next update.

[Alisia Lisha]

**TWITTER UPDATES REGARDING DAWNGUARD**

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon Pete! Can we have an update on PS3 DLC. It's been a huge dilemma. PLEASE ANSWER!!! (I created a twitter account just for this.)

Hah, lol @ creating a twitter just to talk to Pete!

[Harinder Ghag]

I haven't been a gamer since Oblivion came out for PC played it and everything, then thought you know I grew up and was done with games. Saw the Skyrim commercial at a bar one night and started saving for a system. After consultation with my family I picked a PS3, my nephews said it was better plus blu-ray and other accesorries. Any way, as much as I love Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls universe, I might not be able to play anymore on my system. Do I think I made a bad choice? Maybe, As a PS3 user who recently got turned on to the Mass Effect series, I'll never be able to play the first one, which i could have with an Xbox. But 2 and 3 were great with a ps3 though.

Long story short, The Elder Scrolls is why I play video games at all and I've played everyone since I was in High School with Morrowind, and all it's expansions. Im mature enough to get over it if Dawnguard never comes out, but I will be sad, and just wish Beth would say It will come out but it may be a while, or just say we give up we can't make a PS3 version work sorry. (Here's a 59.99 rebate haha)

[Jon O]

I haven't been a gamer since Oblivion came out for PC played it and everything, then thought you know I grew up and was done with games. Saw the Skyrim commercial at a bar one night and started saving for a system. After consultation with my family I picked a PS3, my nephews said it was better plus blu-ray and other accesorries. Any way, as much as I love Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls universe, I might not be able to play anymore on my system. Do I think I made a bad choice? Maybe, As a PS3 user who recently got turned on to the Mass Effect series, I'll never be able to play the first one, which i could have with an Xbox. But 2 and 3 were great with a ps3 though.

Long story short, The Elder Scrolls is why I play video games at all and I've played everyone since I was in High School with Morrowind, and all it's expansions. Im mature enough to get over it if Dawnguard never comes out, but I will be sad, and just wish Beth would say It will come out but it may be a while, or just say we give up we can't make a PS3 version work sorry. (Here's a 59.99 rebate haha)

Seeing friendly oriented posts like this are the ones that make me really feel for PS3 users and wish there was a way they coud play Dawnguard sooner rather than later.

[Nomee]

i dont see why you guys are even bothered about it. i mean i have DG i bought skyrim again for 360 to get DG an i actually wish i had not bothered. DG is not very fun to play as its jus full of bugs an silly bugs that should not be there. having to press the button 5-10 times to switch forms/use bats. having to have multiple button presses to do the spells too. its unresponsive, slow an buggy. all my favourite powers an shouts reset when changing form too. its not a polished dlc an basically is ruined by the sheer number of issues plaguing it. i cant believe this was actually thought to be a well polished an finished dlc. i mean i dont even want to play it its soo horrible an clunky. the rest of the game seems perfectly fine in comparison. but the VL has ruined my game as i now have drawbacks from having it. but its soo buggy i never want to use it( i know i can change back an will when i finished). i do want to get all cheevos tho so im stuck with a char thats jus crappy to play for now, lol.

wot im trying to say is you ps3 users are not missing much so really do not worry. id rather they never released the dlc the way it currently is. nobody should have to play with this crap.

now dont get me wrong the actual gameplay an general idea is great an i could be loving it, but it jus does not work well like its supposed to. if it did then youd defo be missing out on something. but as it stands all your really missing out on is a glitchy dlc thatl make you wonder why it was even released in the first place. trust me u guys are not missing much at all in the current state DG is in. id rather my ms points back to spend on a couple other dlc for other games that actually work properly an give me enjoyment not frustration.

I agree here. The DLC was bug filled but Im on PC so after my bug filled playthrough there is now an unofficial patch that fixes like every problem and is compatible with like every mod.
So lucky for PC although PS3 and 360 will still have their issues. Some possibly even messing with the vanilla game.

I can't really speak for the PS3 community as I am a PC user but it seems to me that it is no longer about DG and more about how Bethesda seems to simply not care about the PS3 at all, it was said above in 2 posts quite nicely, They had to know skyrim could have problems with the PS3 hell they used a third party to port Oblivion to the PS3 one can only assume they expected to have similar problems porting skyrim to the PS3. So then the question becomes did they just not care enough to try and bring a quality port to the system? or can they simply not code well enough on the PS3 to do so? If it is the later why in the world wouldn't they go the same route they went with Oblivion?

Agreed. The issue was only purely about dawnguard for some people and more so in the beginning. This mainly applied to people who had only recently delved into Beth games on the PS3.

But what got under peoples skin was deep down it seemed they worried that the track record would never change. Whether or not it is bethesda's wrong doing or anything, THEY ARE AT FAULT

They know the system specs, they had the game tested by their own personal employees I'm sure, they know their own track record.

Is it on purpose? No.

Is it their problem, their fault, their responsibility? Yes.

It is not possible for them to have not known that the game would freeze, lag, and so on and so forth. I find it hard to believe that when testing their patches no one ever noticed a backwards flying dragon.

They are at fault for each issue whether it was on purpose or not. In the very least, it is negligence and the PS3 community tires of it.

We enjoy posting on the forum as just fans such as yourself. Sometimes we have time and sometimes we don't. BTW, if you find someone here coming in this thread to tell you to get another platform, just report it as flamebait. We don'e tolerate that here.

Will do. I talk more on here than youtube because at least here consequences do exist lol

Dishonored is developed by Arkane, not Bethesda.

I still say guilty by association

Many of you complain Bethesda doesn't support the PS3 users. You want better support but what EXACTLY do you want?
Of course you want the game and all DLCs to run perfectly on the PS3 but that doesn't seem to be possible. It might just be impossible to squeeze any more of a huge, dynamic virtual world into the severely memory limited PS3. Now what?

If they tell you the DLC will never come because they can't get it to work properly, you will complain you don't get it.
If they release the DLC as it is, you will complain it doesn't work properly.
If they try to find a way to get it to work after all, as they are doing now, you complain it takes too long.

You'll be upset and angry no matter what Bethesda does.

Looking back the best option would have been to never release the game for the PS3 at all.
But that's too late now. I'm sure Bethesda believed it would work well enough despite the lousy memory situation on the PS3 and many PS3 players, who had little problems, would probably agree. But now they are aware of the the severe problems that some PS3-players had and they have saves from affected players that probably showed problems they never experienced or expected. Now they use that knowledge to test Dawnguard and have to realize it will cause more players even more problems. They decide not to release it in it's current state. They tell you about the problem and try to fix it.

You're angry about that but what else can they do?
Would you prefer they told you every few days that they didn't make any progress?
No new information implies there simply IS nothing new to tell. How would it help to reiterate the same known facts all the time?
Would you be happier if they didn't release it for platforms that can handle it without (m)any problems either just because your PS3 can't?

So really, what DO you want them to do?

A lot of people have actually just asked, for a straight up answer, is it not coming out. But the response is typically more like, maybe.

The stress is in the unknown. No one likes being left in the dark.

If it were 100% yes eventually it will come out full guarentee, alot would stop here and turn to speculation rather than rage and conspiracy theories.

If it were 100% no, then people would have a bit of anger, maybe last a week, then done. Where others would simply accept it.
This topic is allowed to float around and survive so long because there still is no answer really.


Personally I want beth to get its game together or stop completely. Not just for the PS3 but for anything else they are releasing half done.


I had a good amount of bugs that were messing with my dawnguard playthrough. I would like to know, why does it take bethesda many months to create a patch that employees are being paid to make, to fix issues, and it takes a modder less than a week to fix every issue you experienced?

Damage bugs, appearance bugs, gameplay bugs, conversation bugs, all fixed with mods.

Why can the modding community work 100x faster than their patching employees?

Alot of these modders are working by themselves, and Beth seems to use the community as a crutch.



Issue being, eventually the creators stop supporting their mod. And when beth finally does push a patch through, then you have to get rid of the mod because it conflicts, and you have to accept more bugs unless you deny the patch.

So get your game together for each system, or stop releasing bug filled products.
I've played a decent amount of games, but none with so many bugs, and none with such long gaps between fixes of known bugs.

I don't care if skyrim is "unique", if it is so much more so there are so much more problems.
If you're going to release a product with a challenge, it should still be released to be on par with other games in how well it works.

If the challenge is accepted than you do not succeed until it is fully complete, not halfway through and claim your prize. PS3 waited 8-9 months to get their game balanced enough to play without constant crashing and freezing. That's a long time to own a game and have it mess up alot.

When I was on PS3, it went every 30min or so, maybe every 45-60min WITH AUTOSAVES OFF

With autosaves on it crashed even more frequently.

I didn't have lagging issues, just complete freezing. And with autosave off it's a pain to go back every crash. You'd have to save like every 5-10min manually to evade losing progress for the random freezing.

Now I'm on PC though with my unofficial patch and it runs great