[..xX Vin Xx..]

Week 3 on these forums for me now. 3 weeks of impatiently waiting and wondering whether Beth would finally give us a straight answer. Darker and darker grows my opinion of the publisher of some of my favorite games ever. Mr. Hines and the rest of the PR team have handled this in such an unbelievably terrible fashion that I'm actually surprised their board of directors hasn't swung the axe by now. If public relations were managed this poorly in any other business, they would be out of a job. As has been stated repeatedly, no apologies to consumers have been issued, no accountability accepted whatsoever. In fact, Hines has patronized us all in telling US, the consumer, why WE should purchase their product. This is completely unacceptable. I won't be surprised when Bethesda's stock starts to sink litke a stone.

[Undisclosed Desires]

I think that if Dawnguard even is released, it will be laggy as hell

[Benjamin Holz]

I think I would like to ask a question of everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3_hardware

I am not certain of this link's validity, but it appears to me that the PS3 itself shares a bit of a variation in it's hardware. Maybe nothing excessively big(not like I would know), but it really looks like the PS3 itself isn't the most uniform of consoles.

Maybe Skyrim works flawless on one of the 1st generation PS3s, and the later ones just have every problem in the book? I had a whole heck a lot of issue in New Vegas(I could not hit level 50 the bugs and glitches and freezes were so bad, mainly the Old Mormon Fort was the place for me to have glitches and freezes, but there were many others), and just as many on Fallout 3 GOTY, but Skyrim for me didn't have too many freezes and crashes on PS3. It was just buggy as heck in places that shouldn't be, with bugs in places that are expected, not to mention some of the content wasn't that nice.

So why is it that Bethesda suddenly hits this block that they just cannot get past? They had no problems getting the DLC to us for Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but with all the talk about how Bethesda didn't change engines, you'd say that nothing has changed. But it did, and now everyone has another round of confusion and anger at Bethesda.

This time however, the anger has gotten public, and I have to actually point at IGN for showing this to everyone and tip my hat, really happy that someone has taken notice.

We can hope for the best that what they give The PS3 community is not only quality, but also deserving of this wait. It should be assumed by now that Bethesda owes the PS3 community something for this. They acknowledge that there is something wrong, and there should be some good decency to come out of them. An apology, some free products for PS3 users, some proper gestures of goodwill that give them something to talk about.

After the PSN Hack, Sony gave games away. Free games. Several at that. After Gabe Newell talked bad about the PS3, they made Portal 2 work best on PS3. What about Bethesda? How can they one-up them? How can they take this screwup that would ensure the longevity of their product, and make this good?

I propose Bethesda first and foremost make a proper apology to not just the PS3 community, but those who already identify themselves with the Xbox crowd or the PC(like myself. I sold my copy of Skyrim on PS3, got money on Steam, unboxed an unusual hat and got Assassin's Creed Revelations and Skyrim out of it). Bethesda would also begin to announce not only more patches, or at least what they are working on, as that page has been sitting a bit since it got updated, and also work far more closely with the PS3 crowd, with developers responding to complaints, not just Gstaff jumping on every nice thing that has been said and ignoring the other 90% of not-so positive things.

This could help Bethesda get rid of that barrier between them and us, where people say they do not care, and pave the way for them making better things in the future. If not, the consumer can always sic the media on them in the future, perhaps even resurrecting the issues that Oblivion did not have, and the ones that New Vegas and 3 had. Skyrim's performance could be addressed in a different light if we can not only show that when Bethesda had a hand in things, it was bad; and when they didn't it was good.

[W E I R D]

What I find funny is people are cancelling pre-orders for dishonored...Hello Bethesda is Dishonored publisher not its developer. Arkane studio's is Developing Dishonored so by cancelling you just crapped on Arkane studio's for Bethesda's faults. Way to point the finger at the wrong people..

The finger is still being pointed at Bethesda here. It may be that Arkane suffers for their association with Beth, but that is hardly a novel concept. Guilt by association, choosing better friends - choose your cliche. We all learned in primary school that if you hung out with the kids starting trouble then we'd also be in trouble.

Besides, I'm pretty sure with the PR machine driving the products they will still be ok.

I kind of feel bad for Bethesda because even though the way they are handling this is appalling, and they really did mess up with Skyrim for the PS3, they obviously didn't plan for this to happen.

I definitely don't feel bad for them. You really think they didn't plan for this to happen? Somebody knew this could happen at least 1 year ago today. The issues with Gamebryo on PS3 have been well known for years. The problems with Skyrim had to have been known by the developers well before release, and knowing the issues existed the logical conclusion would be that adding content would be a major technical hurdle.

People are pissed, and they want to fix the problem, but they have messed up so bad that they may not be able to.

I don't see much evidence they want to fix the problem. If they did I don't think the PC/Xbox would be so far ahead in support. I don't think Sony would have been called in ten months post-release and I'm damn sure their VP of marketing wouldn't be painting Skyrim on PS3 as he has been.

In all honesty, I think they should make their games for the PS3, and then port it over to the Xbox and PC because that would probably make this whole issue go away. Then when they make a DLC do the same thing, and if Microsoft buys an exclusivity period again then release the Xbox version first, and then release the other two right afterwards. So really they should have made the DLC for all the platforms before setting a release date, then release it once they are done with all of them.

I think the last opportunity they had to take this approach was after 4j handed them back Gamebryo ready for the PS3. By that time I think FO3 was pretty well underway though and they did not want to make such sweeping changes to their code culture. At this point I doubt anything short of a GB sized patch is going to fix the mess we have.

And they are certainly not going to invest that much in the PS3 fans.

[Adam Baumgartner]

After the PSN Hack, Sony gave games away. Free games. Several at that. After Gabe Newell talked bad about the PS3, they made Portal 2 work best on PS3. What about Bethesda? How can they one-up them? How can they take this screwup that would ensure the longevity of their product, and make this good?

I don't believe Bethesda will do anything as far as a "one-up". At the most, PS3 users MIGHT get a generic apology and DG as a full price DLC. Bethesda is in the business to make money, nothing will be given away for free (especially since they've had to have their PS3 Developers "work" extra to attempt to fix the DLC; and the Nine knows how much they're having to pay for Sonys' help).

[N3T4]

I don't believe Bethesda will do anything as far as a "one-up". At the most, PS3 users MIGHT get a generic apology and DG as a full price DLC. Bethesda is in the business to make money, nothing will be given away for free (especially since they've had to have their PS3 Developers "work" extra to attempt to fix the DLC; and the Nine knows how much they're having to pay for Sonys' help).

It would have cost a lot less to enlist the help two years ago.

[NEGRO]

I think I would like to ask a question of everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3_hardware

I am not certain of this link's validity, but it appears to me that the PS3 itself shares a bit of a variation in it's hardware. Maybe nothing excessively big(not like I would know), but it really looks like the PS3 itself isn't the most uniform of consoles.

Maybe Skyrim works flawless on one of the 1st generation PS3s, and the later ones just have every problem in the book? I had a whole heck a lot of issue in New Vegas(I could not hit level 50 the bugs and glitches and freezes were so bad, mainly the Old Mormon Fort was the place for me to have glitches and freezes, but there were many others), and just as many on Fallout 3 GOTY, but Skyrim for me didn't have too many freezes and crashes on PS3. It was just buggy as heck in places that shouldn't be, with bugs in places that are expected, not to mention some of the content wasn't that nice.

So why is it that Bethesda suddenly hits this block that they just cannot get past? They had no problems getting the DLC to us for Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but with all the talk about how Bethesda didn't change engines, you'd say that nothing has changed. But it did, and now everyone has another round of confusion and anger at Bethesda.

This time however, the anger has gotten public, and I have to actually point at IGN for showing this to everyone and tip my hat, really happy that someone has taken notice.

First you have understand that those hardware changes didn't actually change the functionality of the consoles that much, if at all, and secondly none of them would make it less efficient at what they do: it simply wouldn't make sense. My console is one of the old 40GB models that came out before the release of the MGS 60GB bundles (CECHHxx iirc). Although one of the most robust models reported (I think it has one of the lowest failure rates out of all PS3 models to date), it still has problems with the game and it depends on the character. My Altmer destruction/restoration mage (Life and Death build I call it) at level 50 runs into fewer problems then my level 42 Redguard sword/shield man and master crafter (Master Craftsman build) had at level 30.

Next you have to remember a lot of the hardware changes were made to eventually come out with the slim model by putting all the components into a smaller package, which they did.

Lastly, the biggest hardware changes outside of the actual size of the components came in the removal of components that strictly were for PS2 games ---> PS3 compabilitiy. This would literally have no affect on Bethesda games unless they initially tried to make Skyrim for the PS2, and if they did it simply would not work because no console made today has these components in them and the ones that do have had the parts of the software to provide this backwards compability removed.


The XBox360 I'm sure has had several hardware changes over the years too, and we all know PC's change all the time even within the same model year. This shouldn't have been a problem for Bethesda to overcome, and if it was that just really speaks to their incompetence. However I feel that this is one thing that even Bethesda couldn't have been THAT incompentent about.

[+++CAZZY]

I think I would like to ask a question of everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3_hardware

I am not certain of this link's validity, but it appears to me that the PS3 itself shares a bit of a variation in it's hardware. Maybe nothing excessively big(not like I would know), but it really looks like the PS3 itself isn't the most uniform of consoles.

The most significant hardware variable amongst the PS3 family is free HD space.

The OS allocates about 11% (from free space) for swap. With Skyrim Bethesda tried to implement a very aggressive swap mechanism to circumvent some of their engine memory allocation issues. This is why they recommend clearing up space on the HD.

As the available space on the HD decreased the application gets less swap space and makes it tougher to page data in and out.

[Maria Leon]

Pete really should take a vacation because communciation, proper communication is very key in his job and last I check that's not happening. PS3 users are still in the dark, are we getting Dawnguard, has Beth quit on us, etc.

Whoa whoa whoa! Borderlands 2 is out!!!???

Yup and it's awesome

[latrina]

I have completely moved on from eagerly anticipating dawnguard. To waiting for it. Now im on to the stage of I really don't care about it anymore, if it comes out I will definately buy it, but until that day comes, I really don't care anymore.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of consistent updates, sure we get updates but its the same whitewash just re-worded, at least tell us something new. Hell give us a general percentage of work completed. you know like its 50% ready to go something like that.

[Rach B]

First you have understand that those hardware changes didn't actually change the functionality of the consoles that much, if at all, and secondly none of them would make it less efficient at what they do: it simply wouldn't make sense. My console is one of the old 40GB models that came out before the release of the MGS 60GB bundles (CECHHxx iirc). Although one of the most robust models reported (I think it has one of the lowest failure rates out of all PS3 models to date), it still has problems with the game and it depends on the character. My Altmer destruction/restoration mage (Life and Death build I call it) at level 50 runs into fewer problems then my level 42 Redguard sword/shield man and master crafter (Master Craftsman build) had at level 30.

Next you have to remember a lot of the hardware changes were made to eventually come out with the slim model by putting all the components into a smaller package, which they did.

Lastly, the biggest hardware changes outside of the actual size of the components came in the removal of components that strictly were for PS2 games ---> PS3 compabilitiy. This would literally have no affect on Bethesda games unless they initially tried to make Skyrim for the PS2, and if they did it simply would not work because no console made today has these components in them and the ones that do have had the parts of the software to provide this backwards compability removed.


The XBox360 I'm sure has had several hardware changes over the years too, and we all know PC's change all the time even within the same model year. This shouldn't have been a problem for Bethesda to overcome, and if it was that just really speaks to their incompetence. However I feel that this is one thing that even Bethesda couldn't have been THAT incompentent about.

It's good to have these kind of corrections, but we have to kind of wonder why some people say they have no issues with the game, and others are tripping over them. Can it all be chocked up to what Todd said way back when about how you play?

Still, something's got to change. Know your different pete, you know i'm the same. We're both too busy to be taking the blame. I would like some changes, but you don't have the time. We can't go on thinking it's a victimless crime. No one is blameless, but we're all without shame.

I think PS3 users should get a little more than politic-talk outta Gstaff and company. Can we get that?

[Dawn Porter]

I don't know if this video has been shared before, but I'll leave it here anyways: http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/buj09x/annoyed-gamer-episode-9--unfinished-games-
(note: annoyed gamer talks about bethesda games at minute 2:42)

[chirsty aggas]

It's good to have these kind of corrections, but we have to kind of wonder why some people say they have no issues with the game, and others are tripping over them. Can it all be chocked up to what Todd said way back when about how you play?

Skyrim's a very big, complex game and there's a lot to account for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDGp7Fox7QM

At this time there's not any new information to share that would differ from the post that's pinned in this forum. We're not at a point where we're satisfied with it to release it. But we're still looking at it and seeing what's possible, and as it's been mentioned, we're working with Sony on it.

We understand that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still where we're at.

I know that's frustrating for you guys, but I assure if there's news to update, we'll let you know about it.

[Aliish Sheldonn]

So what your saying is Beth has no obligation to communicate with its customers am i right? What kind of business model is that?

LOLWUT!?
Really? is THAT your interpretation of what I posted?

In a word, NO and were you to review many of my posts here you would never draw that conclusion. Even reading my signature block would have given you an idea on my views.

I firmly believe Beth should be more communicative and quit the dismissive attitude we have seen now and in the past but I doubt they will change.

[Chris BEvan]

Skyrim's a very big, complex game and there's a lot to account for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDGp7Fox7QM

At this time there's not any new information to share that would differ from the post that's pinned in this forum. We're not at a point where we're satisfied with it to release it. But we're still looking at it and seeing what's possible, and as it's been mentioned, we're working with Sony on it.

We understand that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still where we're at.

I know that's frustrating for you guys, but I assure if there's news to update, we'll let you know about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37OWL7AzvHo

I am just messing with you Gstaff.

[Fanny Rouyé]

Skyrim's a very big, complex game and there's a lot to account for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDGp7Fox7QM

At this time there's not any new information to share that would differ from the post that's pinned in this forum. We're not at a point where we're satisfied with it to release it. But we're still looking at it and seeing what's possible, and as it's been mentioned, we're working with Sony on it.

We understand that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still where we're at.

I know that's frustrating for you guys, but I assure if there's news to update, we'll let you know about it.

Frustrating?? oh you have NO idea.

This is already starting to become an other FO3 DLC fiasco.

[Doniesha World]

Skyrim's a very big, complex game and there's a lot to account for. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDGp7Fox7QM

At this time there's not any new information to share that would differ from the post that's pinned in this forum. We're not at a point where we're satisfied with it to release it. But we're still looking at it and seeing what's possible, and as it's been mentioned, we're working with Sony on it.

We understand that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still where we're at.

I know that's frustrating for you guys, but I assure if there's news to update, we'll let you know about it.

HEY EVERYBODY, BETHESDA IS LOOKING AT DAWNGUARD! WE'RE LOOKING REALLY HARD! BUT, NOTHING CHANGES, NO MATTER HOW HARD WE LOOK.

Lol, you have to actually work on it.

[Setal Vara]

We're not at a point where we're satisfied with it to release it.

Seriously, what is this supposed to mean?

Are we to take this as meaning that Dawnguard performs worse than the base version of Skyrim does, considering you guys felt that it was fit for retail? Or does it mean that you've stepped up your game regarding the standards of the products you'll release?

[Klaire]

As Todd mentioned http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/02/20/todd-howard-interview.aspx, we feel terrible when folks are experiencing issues with our games. We're committed to doing better than that. Since release, we've continued to work on title updates to resolve issues players experienced -- whether it's someone that played from day one or picked it up later after the game received a few title updates.

[Darrell Fawcett]

okay gamesas read this carefully 3 of my friends they all have dregrees in
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1412398-ps3-dawnguard-read-plz-and-give-it-to-devoplers/# and and one even has 2 masters in it and i was talking to them about what could be causing the issuses with the DLC crossing over to PS3 and after they read all the information that you guys are giving its sounds like that the game engine software you guys are using is OUT OF DATE and it is too weak to cross over the DLC

so my suggest to you guys is update the http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1412398-ps3-dawnguard-read-plz-and-give-it-to-devoplers/# PLZ


then all your troubles will and hopfuly go away

[Chenae Butler]

It's good to see a response, thank you Matt. I understand there is much to account for, but how much differentiates this from any previous game? It's good to know however that y'all can be reached through these channels.

...but no-one got the Rush reference?

[Rodney C]

While we're at it, Matt; would you be privy to tell us how you guys are with the developers over at 4J, the guys who did the Oblivion port? Were they ever contacted about Fallout 3, New Vegas, or Skyrim?

[Quick Draw]

While we're at it, Matt; would you be privy to tell us how you guys are with the developers over at 4J, the guys who did the Oblivion port? Were they ever contacted about Fallout 3, New Vegas, or Skyrim?

I always thought the same thing. Oblivion was fine on the PS3 wasn't it? I feel it would be an ideal solution to the issues.

[ezra]

This is completely ridiculous.

How many Bethesda games have I played on the PS3 by now? How many of them had DLC? Heck, how many were even then re-released as Game of the Year editions with all the DLC!! Skyrim itself wasn't complicated, but a little bit of modding is?? Elder Scrolls games have been made with modding in mind for YEARS. You expect me to believe that the games own developer can't make a mod NOW?

There are only 3 systems. There is absolutely no excuse for a major developer being unable to make a game on each one WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE IN THE PAST. We all know that there are dozens of games released by near-incompetent developers that manage to make it onto all 3 systems - are they that much better at their jobs then Bethesda? Hire THEIR coders. I know, I know: this one is "more complicated." Just like all the other Oblivion/Fallout3/FalloutNV games that Bethesda managed to get on PS3 were complicated.

Enough with the lame excuses. If you're just getting bucketloads of money from Microsoft to pretend that the PS3 is a problem, at least own up to it. But don't pretend that you can't make a game for PS3 when you ALREADY HAVE.

There just isn't any reasonable explanation for this when they clearly KNOW how to make PS3 games because they (and every other developer on the planet!!) have done it before with near-identical games and DLC. It's not like it was a surprise for them that they were going to have to make this one work on PS3 too....they knew that going in, so they clearly would have designed accordingly if they ever had ANY intention of releasing it on PS3.

[Stephanie Nieves]

I always thought the same thing. Oblivion was fine on the PS3 wasn't it? I feel it would be an ideal solution to the issues.

Moreover, if we knew that there would be issues after Fallout 3, why didn't New Vegas get a good port to do Fallout justice?