[Jade Muggeridge]

The game is already released, they cannot rewrite the whole thing just for DLC and still get it to work with the main game, all they can do is patch in improvements to free up more resources. That they have the PS3 DLC working would seem to indicate it is just one version of the PS3 that is causing problems. Sony's brilliant marketing ploy to get more sales by selling a stripped down mini 12Gb PS3 would probably I think be the likeliest culprit. Especially considering the wording of Bethesda's statements, and the hint they might not be so impressed with the PS3.

Hard Drive size isn't what is causing the issues with performance that Bethesda STILL won't come out and say. How could it? All the other operating specs are unchanged. 12 gigs still comfortably holds the 5.5 gigs of space the PS3 version of Skyrim needs to run. Its been said again and again we need to stay on track here and not make this a platform vs platform skirmish-so please let's not.

At this point i don't think its a stretch to say that the issues are game engine in origin. And that means Bethesda, which is backed up by what Hines has given out a bit at a time

* Not every PS3 save will be effected
* Player actions have a bearing on if said 'issue' pops up
* Bethesda is completely at fault

Whether or not Bethesda ever releases DLC to the PS3 comes down to two things now. A) Do they as a company want to make even the barest attempt to hold on to their TES and Fallout fans that play on PS3 and B ) will they be able to pull out a profit if a ground-up rewrite of Skyrim specifically for the PS3 were to be undertaken(and really, that's most likely the only way to fix the underlying problem with PS3 Skyrim-which is that its a shoddy un-optimized port).

I can see 'A' actually being something Bethesda wants, but i honestly don't see Bethesda ever pulling off 'B'.

[kitten maciver]

Ummm, that 12gb model won't be released until Thursday (the 12th), wasn't even announced until last month, you won't be able to get one in any U.S. Store, and this game has been out almost a year and problems have been persistent with this game across a lot of different models that were already released.

Anybody buying that console most likely is not going to be using it to play a lot of games, or at least, play a lot of games at once. Better off for the PSN-gaming crowd.

The PS3 has almost exactly the same problems as the Xbox 360 game, the 360 players got DLC, Sony would knock the DLC back if it did not play to their standards on all version of the PS3. So Skyrim and DLC has to be playable on the 12Gb PS3.

I can just see the big red lettering on the PSN page for Skyrim DLC. Warning, you need an actual real hard drive in order to play this content on your PS3, you own a 12Gb model Sony will not be responsible for you wasting your money. Bethesda is going to have to get it to play, Sony will not release it otherwise.

[Dj Matty P]

The PS3 has almost exactly the same problems as the Xbox 360 game, the 360 players got DLC, Sony would knock the DLC back if it did not play to their standards on all version of the PS3. So Skyrim and DLC has to be playable on the 12Gb PS3.

I can just see the big red lettering on the PSN page for Skyrim DLC. Warning, you need an actual real hard drive in order to play this content on your PS3, you own a 12Gb model Sony will not be responsible for you wasting your money. Bethesda is going to have to get it to play, Sony will not release it otherwise.

Sony should of knocked back skyrim at the start. If Sony had standards they wouldn't of let this broken game on their systems. Not blaming Sony for the broken product that's Beth's fault but I'm blaming Sony for allowing this broken game on their system.

I find it amazing, these testers... They test that the disc inserts and ejects that's all lol. Beth knew the ps3 was gonna have problems. Sony must of just said yeah sod it wel test it 30 seconds find 0 bugs an release... Pff

[Emerald Dreams]

The PS3 has almost exactly the same problems as the Xbox 360 game, the 360 players got DLC, Sony would knock the DLC back if it did not play to their standards on all version of the PS3. So Skyrim and DLC has to be playable on the 12Gb PS3.

I can just see the big red lettering on the PSN page for Skyrim DLC. Warning, you need an actual real hard drive in order to play this content on your PS3, you own a 12Gb model Sony will not be responsible for you wasting your money. Bethesda is going to have to get it to play, Sony will not release it otherwise.

The tiny hard-drive was meant to lower the cost. It's cheaper for people who don't game that often, and the hard-drive can be replaced with a larger one relatively easily for those who want a larger one.

[trisha punch]

The tiny hard-drive was meant to lower the cost. It's cheaper for people who don't game that often, and the hard-drive can be replaced with a larger one relatively easily for those who want a larger one.

Does not matter what size hardrive you can add, Sony would expect it to play with just the original 12Gb flash memory. If installation is still mandatory there goes half your space, another few gigs maybe for saves a few gigs of DLC and probably they still need to reserve space for system files. There is not going to be enough space to play Skyrim.

[Gavin Roberts]

Lol at everyone talking about the ps3s hardware. None of that is a ps3 owners problem. All we customers do is buy it and hope it works. I personally will wait for reviews before I buy any dlc from them, hopefully that's not just me. All I'm saying is they released skyrim for the ps3, by default it's their responsibility to get it working. The minute they say we failed is the minute that responsibility becomes null and void.

[Jade]

... Still no update on either dlc... I have had enough of this by now.

1. They make a dlc released only for the xbox (fair enough if Microsoft wants to pay to get it 30 days earlier than the rest of us) but then it turns out that it isn't even ready for the other systems at the end of the exclusive period...
2. Then pc gets the dlc but there is no word or update on the ps3...
3. Then they have the nerve of announcing a second dlc and still no real update for the ps3...
4. They then release the second dlc exclusively for xbox (again fair if Microsoft wants to pay for it) and pc gets the dlc after the 30 days are up... Still no word on Dawnguard and now nothing about Hearthfire either...

This is obviously only a small list of the things that has angered me but they are the main points.
From this point on I will think twice about buying anything that Bethesda has had anything to do with. I will of course still support my fellow ps3 owners on these matters and hopefully Bethesda will get their act together and do their jobs properly.

I am currently working on getting into the gaming business myself and I would never ever do anything like what Bethesda has done so far. It is simply bad business!
As far as I am concerned you do not release a dlc for either platform unless it is ready for the others too, exclusive agreement or not. (They would still get it 30 days earlier than the others just later in the year).
The community is crying for information... Why not post a check list of the problems needing to be solved and then update it every now and again. (Don't tell me that the ones fixing the problems do not have a list of said problems because we all know that they do).
Lastly you do not announce the release of a second dlc when some of the platforms have not even gotten the first one yet because then you will obviously be angering your playerbase. (Which in turn will lose you money if you anger them enough).

That is about all I have to say for now.

[Jason Rice]

... Still no update on either dlc... I have had enough of this by now.

1. They make a dlc released only for the xbox (fair enough if Microsoft wants to pay to get it 30 days earlier than the rest of us) but then it turns out that it isn't even ready for the other systems at the end of the exclusive period...
2. Then pc gets the dlc but there is no word or update on the ps3...
3. Then they have the nerve of announcing a second dlc and still no real update for the ps3...
4. They then release the second dlc exclusively for xbox (again fair if Microsoft wants to pay for it) and pc gets the dlc after the 30 days are up... Still no word on Dawnguard and now nothing about Hearthfire either...

This is obviously only a small list of the things that has angered me but they are the main points.
From this point on I will think twice about buying anything that Bethesda has had anything to do with. I will of course still support my fellow ps3 owners on these matters and hopefully Bethesda will get their act together and do their jobs properly.

I am currently working on getting into the gaming business myself and I would never ever do anything like what Bethesda has done so far. It is simply bad business!
As far as I am concerned you do not release a dlc for either platform unless it is ready for the others too, exclusive agreement or not. (They would still get it 30 days earlier than the others just later in the year).
The community is crying for information... Why not post a check list of the problems needing to be solved and then update it every now and again. (Don't tell me that the ones fixing the problems do not have a list of said problems because we all know that they do).
Lastly you do not announce the release of a second dlc when some of the platforms have not even gotten the first one yet because then you will obviously be angering your playerbase. (Which in turn will lose you money if you anger them enough).

That is about all I have to say for now.

[Wayland Neace]

Increasing sales of inexpensive DLC by 30% may not be worth the expense of rewriting the game. THAT is what I was saying.

Considering that the "inexpensive DLC content" profit is damn-near infinite, all depending on the quality of content and timely releases.... then yes, DLC sales by 30% would make investing in re-writing the PS3 code much worth it.

I'm sure re-adjusting the PS3 code is difficult... but I honestly don't expect it being harder than creating a single DL content patch akin to Dawnguard's content. If anything, re-coding a PS3 version may simply be more time consuming than "hard".

[Miguel]

Although it appears that the opinions of PS3 users means exactly zero to bethesda I thought I'd add my own pledge not to buy any games that they are involved in.

The arrogance that they've shown in their treatment of the PS3 community has been staggering.

[MatthewJontully]

Considering that the "inexpensive DLC content" profit is damn-near infinite, all depending on the quality of content and timely releases.... then yes, DLC sales by 30% would make investing in re-writing the PS3 code much worth it.

I'm sure re-adjusting the PS3 code is difficult... but I honestly don't expect it being harder than creating a single DL content patch akin to Dawnguard's content. If anything, re-coding a PS3 version may simply be more time consuming than "hard".

Creating a DLC with a team of professionals is time consuming and takes effort, but is overall a very easy thing to do. The engine is made in such a way that modding (because that's all the DLCs are, official mods with some minor engine additions) is part of the game, plugins can be made and swapped in and out without effort.

Re-writing the game engine is far, far from easy, and is certainly not worth their time.

[Mr. Ray]

Is there any further info as to why it works on some PS3s and not others. I've read a lot of speculation about models, but is there any official explanation?

[Bellismydesi]

Ummm, that 12gb model won't be released until Thursday (the 12th), wasn't even announced until last month, you won't be able to get one in any U.S. Store, and this game has been out almost a year and problems have been persistent with this game across a lot of different models that were already released.

Anybody buying that console most likely is not going to be using it to play a lot of games, or at least, play a lot of games at once. Better off for the PSN-gaming crowd.

This ^ The new console has nothing to do with Bethesda's problems with the PS3 coding.

[Emily Jeffs]

Although it appears that the opinions of PS3 users means exactly zero to bethesda I thought I'd add my own pledge not to buy any games that they are involved in.

The arrogance that they've shown in their treatment of the PS3 community has been staggering.

Well Dishonored is a pretty fun game. I guess youre missing out

[GabiiE Liiziiouz]

Well Dishonored is a pretty fun game. I guess youre missing out

Dishonored looks like a GREAT game, but since I missed out on the pre-order bonus I decided to wait and see.

If they give Microsoft another timed exclusive DLC and I have to wait all that extra time for the PS3 port, I might as well keep that extra money in my pocket until the PS3 version of the first "full" DLC gets released.

Yes, quality DLC is important to me, anything that adds to or expands upon an already great game is usually worth it for me.

Also, hopefully Arkane won't have the same frustrating DLC issues that BGS is having with the PS3 Skyrim DLC ports.

[NO suckers In Here]

2 things I have to add.

1. I work in an industry that was recently affected by some substantial Federal legislation, and has since had to change a few of the ways we operate. One of these changes was a requirement to physically furnish a new piece of information and release it to all of our customers by a predetermined date. Like many in the industry, my specific company has failed to meet this date. We are not being penalized for this currently, as we are showing a "good faith effort" to comply (which, on a side note, I can say is truly the case), but our customers - especially those who were promised and expected this material, are understandably upset. I just left a meeting where our strategy in dealing with this was discussed. The only two options we are weighing are: 1. daily/weekly updates with progress reports on what issues are affecting what phase of implementation, or 2. providing a realistic, future date that we expect a resolution, with interim updates as needed if that date gets pushed, with another update on the arrival of that date - if it cannot be met.

Sitting in this meeting, I couldn't help but to consider the parallels between "my" situation, and that which Bethesda faces, and to further contemplate Bethesda's total lack of regard for its PS3 customers, as neither of the two tracks listed above were pursued, and instead we are being stonewalled. Just thought that was interesting.

2. At this point, I wonder if this could/should be considered a warranty situation. It is clear that a game feature, listed in the product manual (Downloadable Content) does not work. Per the same manual, we are instructed to file a warranty claim in these instances. Now, the warranty period stated is 90 days - however, this particular feature was not apparently malfunctional until after that 90 period expired (and unless new manuals are shipping with recent copies, which I doubt) this affects everyone who purchased their game since Friday, 7/13.

I have directly asked Bethesda if the consider each PS3 disc to be "defective" due to this issue, and what the recourse is in that case. I have received no reply. I would be interested to hear if someone from Bethesda, perhaps gstaff, would like to address this. I think it is a valid question of product quality and liability if phrased in this manner. If each disc is admittedly "defective" - wherein it cannot perform as guaranteed by warranty, would this not be grounds for a product recall and refund? To those discussing "costs" above, I can assure you that this is the costliest scenario facing Bethesda, yet it may be the most realistic. I would be interested to hear what Bethesda has to say regarding this unique warranty scenario. I would also wonder, if this is a case where Bethesda is relying on their exhibition of a "good faith effort" - to whom must they prove this? It would not be Sony, but rather a consumer protection, legislative, or other legal body that governs consumer laws, fraud, anti-trust and fair trade. I'd be interested as to what the potential details are surrounding that.

Lastly - excuse any typos, I'm writing from a phone.

[Sophh]

The PS3 has almost exactly the same problems as the Xbox 360 game, the 360 players got DLC, Sony would knock the DLC back if it did not play to their standards on all version of the PS3. So Skyrim and DLC has to be playable on the 12Gb PS3.

I can just see the big red lettering on the PSN page for Skyrim DLC. Warning, you need an actual real hard drive in order to play this content on your PS3, you own a 12Gb model Sony will not be responsible for you wasting your money. Bethesda is going to have to get it to play, Sony will not release it otherwise.

I hear what you're saying, but the problems between the XBox and PS3 might have been very similar but PS3 has had by far much worse support on those problems. And it wasn't Sony pushing back the DLC originally, it was Bethesda holding it back.

I'm just trying to figure out your point here in regards to Sony on an obvious Bethesda problem with their ability to make it work on a PS3. As far as we all know, hard drive space has never been the issue. The initial install of Skyrim on the PS3 was roughly 4.5gb. The Dawnguard filesize is about .6 gb. More than enough space for a 12gb version which hasn't been released yet.

Does not matter what size hardrive you can add, Sony would expect it to play with just the original 12Gb flash memory. If installation is still mandatory there goes half your space, another few gigs maybe for saves a few gigs of DLC and probably they still need to reserve space for system files. There is not going to be enough space to play Skyrim.

A few gigs for save files? Large save files are measured in 10's of megs. That means you would have be to playing A LOT of Skyrim.



I think you're just making up some noise due to Sony releasing such a small hard drive which could more than handle the size of Skyrim. Without DLC, GT5 is still by far the largest (optional) install on the PS3. The vanilla version is almost twice the size of Skyrim + DLC. And if you have a 12gb system, you would still be able to play it.

[kelly thomson]

I think you're just making up some noise due to Sony releasing such a small hard drive which could more than handle the size of Skyrim.

^--- X10

[Monika Krzyzak]

One suggestion that may help alleviate the PS3 problems is an adenim to a proposed idea I wrote before.

Prior, I said there was a LOT of unused useless dungeons that remain cleared and registered as "safe" zones. By removing those to a respawning dungeon you would be saving memory while adding MUCH more replay value to older dungeons... what I DIDN'T realize is those dungeons were intentionally designed with the idea of letting players "claim" them as their own.

Well, if I may modify my original suggestion - I'd like to propose the idea to let those sanctuary dungeons be a togleable OPTION. Once a dungeon that normally stays tagged as perma-cleared/sanctuary - a player can, instead, select those particular dungeons for toggling sanctuary mode on/off after a clear.

No offense Beth, but I'd venture to guess that the number of PS3 users who use those as legit sanctuaries are less than half a %. And even those who DO use those sanctuaries probably only use 1 or 2 of them... that's a TON of wasted space on that save-file.

Giving a toggle-option for those dungeons would probably REALLY help reduce wasted save-file memory space!

[Josh Sabatini]

^^^^
That along with the idea of removing all the useless objects (embalming tools, ruined books, linen wraps, etc. there are hundreds) may make the game run perfectly.

[TASTY TRACY]

Can I give my honest opinion?

I think that we may not get the DLC, but if we do it will be a long time from now. I say this because I think the base game is so messed up that if they want to get the DLCs to work they will have to go back and essentially recode the game for the PS3, rather than just porting it over from the Xbox. That is what I think, and Sony probably knows this.

Why don't you just buy an Xbox?

[Jodie Bardgett]

Why don't you just buy an Xbox?

I hate how the Xbox controller is, plus there aren't very many games on the Xbox that I like. And my friend says if I ever buy an Xbox he will make me wish I was never born because he has had several bad experiences with Xboxs and he says I would be an idiot for buying one.

[Cameron Wood]

please share link because I would buy that right now after selling my ps3 and all of it's content.



For just one game? What's the point? Oh that's right...none.

Then i don't know why all the PS3 players are complaining. IF it's just one game then forget about it. You still have the base game.

[Lucky Boy]

I have split out a number of posts going down the "PC is better, get one" route. We don't need that in this thread and leads to flaming and members getting into trouble.

[Tyler F]

^^^^
That along with the idea of removing all the useless objects (embalming tools, ruined books, linen wraps, etc. there are hundreds) may make the game run perfectly.

I honestly don't think it's that simple or else it would have been fixed by now. Something this long, it's got to be somewhere in the base of the coding.