Oh dear, you seem to have mistaken me with the topic creator. Try reading people's posts properly.

if someone was playing this for the first time and cared that much about not joining the college then they would look up how to attain the scroll without going there.

So bad game design then?

Them. Not it. We didn't have to go to Blackreach to get the same Elder Scroll for two different missions. To me, it just seems to be a cheeky way to cut corners and save from having to make another quest like say, breaking into a highly guarded area that allows different paths for warrior, thieves, and mages.

If there was not a believable explanation of the Scroll's location then immersion would be broken, so the college being the path is sensible. HAVING to join to enter is annoying BUT since everyone seems to hate them it makes sense for security purposes. If you are so "up in arms" about this then you would look elsewhere 1st before doing something so "Terrible"

99% of Bethesda quests have to be completed in steps, otherwise they find roadblocks to progress such as magically locked doors etc. How is the player supposed to know that finding Septimus' location is a skippable step?

By doing it the right way...and THEN doing it the quick way everytime after that...not complaining on a forum without ever trying something different

But not way out in the middle of nowhere. The Greybeards could have said the College might help you, or you could ask the Jarls' pet wizards, who could then point you to Septimus themselves, without forcing you to go to the College at all. They could say something like "The College of WInterhold had a mage who studied the Elder Scrolls, but he left to create a research post somewhere north of Winterhold. You can try looking for him yourself, or see if the College can give you more specific information as to his whereabouts." Just like that, you have a general idea of where to go without having to become an apprentice at the College of Winterhold.

Yeah but you shouldn't need to look on the net for answers. There are many things the quest giver could have said or people around town to give an alternative.

But even after I did it the wrong way and discovered his location, I still had no clue that the previous step was skIppable. Otherwise I would've reloaded my save and headed straight there.

I just assumed that the door to his cave would be locked until I completed the previous quest step at the College.

Are you just one of those guys who finds it really difficult to criticize Bethesda? They wont ban you for it, you know.

No i am one of those guys who does not ASSUME something like that, i actually take 2 seconds to travel there 1st and actually SEE if the door is locked. If you are THAT lazy then you cant blame anyone but yourself

It's not laziness when every single quest in the game requires all the steps to be completed IN SPECIFIC ORDER.

You can't for example ride up High Hrothgar on a horse and announce you're the DB and start a pow wow with Paathurnax. Quest steps have to be completed first.

But there is something blocking your path in that (ie the deadly wind) while NOTHING is stopping yu from speaking to septimus

The player wouldn't know that because all previous quests have to be completed in specific order and steps cannot be skipped.

And actually you're wrong, you can get to the top of HH and claimed your notched pickaxe at the very start of the game, but Paarthurnax isn't there.

UNLESS yu actually checked. If you ASSUME that everything must be done in the correct order every time then you have no right to complain because that is YUR fallicy

Hang on a mo'...
Urag only gets the scroll if you sell it to him, so that means you must've already entered the college AND done them Septimus quest.

I still don't see why Dawnguard didn't come with a quest to retrieve a different Elder Scroll, rather than just using the one we already had to find. Still sounds like cutting corners to me.

No it's not my fallacy, It's bad design. If all the quests in the game require you to carry out quests in specific order, and every time you try and cut a step out you get roadblocked in some way or another. Why on earth would you assume that there is a shortcut?

Are you saying that all the players who came out of vault 101 and wandered around exploring, accidentally stumbled on Dad and accidentally missed half the main questline, that they were playing it wrong? It's a design fault.

If you never TRY, then you have no right to complain..THE END

Because the prophecy tells of a time when dragons return and that is what the Scroll is about...simple

Actually everyone has the right to complain.

You're having some kind of logical breakdown due to you being such a huge fan of Bethesda. That's okay bro, I understand.

"Hey i just bought a shoe for $100...they might have sold it cheaper elsewhere but i am too lazy to check"...that is your logic. It is not bad design, it is idiocy on your part for being unable to admit you are wrong...dont worry i understand dude

Don't use a bad anology in place of a proper argument.

Bethesda has actively discouraged people from thinking outside the box with their rigid quest design in recent games. Septmius' door being unlocked was probably a mistake, knowing how hard they're trying to force people to join the damn College and complete it's miniscule questline.

:popcorn:

Meanwhile, on topic...
So you need the Elder Scroll for the Dawnguard questline? Considering how i play the MQ that going to delay starting it, or put a long pause on progressing trough it.

Don't know what you need the Elder Scroll in Dawnguard for, but I can say that the Elder Scroll has nothing to do with the prophecy of the dragons returning in the main quest. It takes you back to the defeat of Alduin, which is history at the time the prophecy of Alduin's Wall is created, not prophecy.

If you're talking about the lyrics to the Song of the Dragonborn, they go:

And the Scrolls have foretold
of black wings in the cold,
that when brothers wage war come unfurled!
Alduin, Bane of Kings,
ancient shadow unbound,
with a hunger to swallow the world!

Note it's Scrolls, plural. So even if we're using this as the base as why we need this scroll for both quests, we're told specifically that multiple Scrolls have this prophecy, so why can't we pursue another?

Also, what do the dragons returning have to do with the vampires trying to blot out the sun? The two don't seem related at all.

It is not a mistake because he is involved in a Daedric quest, you dont have to do the MQ to complete Daedric quests which is the case for ALL TES games. I am done arguing, it seems you are too immature to admit you are lazy and all you want is for Beth to throw apologies at you for your own failings, good luck with that