My Imperial Dovahkin is an excellent candidate.

I don't particulairly dislike the Nords but I understand know why Imperials have dominated the current empire. Nords are too inward facing to rule anything other then Nord land. Not enough emphasis on striking deals with others or coorperation, or enough savy in politics other then ham-fisted bludgeoning of someone else's head if they don't agree with you.

And my Imperial is perferctly capable of beating up uppity Nords. He may be shorter in stature but I've sent hundreds of Nords to Sovengarde just as well.In reality, Gauls too made fun of the Roman's shorter stature and didn't take them seriously as warriors - till the Roman built siege engines/earthworks and got in their towns and enslaved/killed the population.

According to Ulfric and Galmar's discussions, they've made overtures to High Rock and Hammerfell. Wanting to rule oneself =/ inward looking.

I kinda gotta agree to this.

It`s only a game, but does reflect how the extreme `pc` crowd can become the very `nazis` they profess to hate.

This knee-jerk unthinking reactions is as dangerous as any extreme thought against other peoples for their culture.

Interesting, I'v never actually read a book in this game but I'v collected stacks.
I may just take sum ta read some.

Nords have been in charge of the empire before and have ruled as good as anyone else. Like I said in my first post, I'm not the greatest fan of Skyrim's Nords, but they're hardly all backwards.

As for Skyrim's Nords, I don't even think they know what their traditions really are. The ones who say that are just blowhards. It's impossible for them to be even close to Ysgramor era Skyrim. Or whatever a "true Nord" is. That's 5000 years before this game takes place. That's like as far back as Moses and Pharaohs are in our own time. It's weird for them to think they could be anything like Ysgramor. They're just grasping when they say stuff like that.

I think right now, in the world of Skyrim, they don't truly know what to do to define themselves other than rebel. The empire hasn't helped in that. Because the Empire doesn't know what the hell the empire stands for either. Titus Mede is the heir to a Colovian who stole the empire's throne after Martin died. The empire is run by a fraud. The only legitimate rulers are dragonborn. And now his grandson has allowed even Talos to be squashed out.

It′s the privilege of the civilized Altmer to decide the worth of them. And total annihilation is art, not savagery.

Again, pot meet kettle. Call it what you will, art or savagery, but the desired result is the same on either side. You think you're better than the other side so you want them dead. You're arguement basically is "I'm right", which isn't a very good one for someone who's suppose to be of a higher class.

Here is the difference between the Thalmor and the Nords. When the Thalmor win a battle, they burn the dead to mock the fools who tried to fight them, to get one last good mocking in before they move on. The Nords do the same, but they'd also build a burrow and burry those enemies who fought with valor and pride. Most Nords would show respect to those who fall in battle.

There are Altmer who feel horrible about those he's killed, I've come across him and talked. There are Nords who are the same. Judging an entire race on a single person, even a leader, is foolish. It's even more foolish to push the extremist views of these racist to get a reaction out of someone.

I don't know why anyone bothers trying to sympathize with the Thalmor. You're railroaded to not do so. It's basically trying to side with some freak who wants to end the entire game series.

People use the terms Falmer and Snowelves to differentiate between what they were, and what they are now and there is a significant difference. It's used in the exact same way in the game. Many NPCs will say Snowelves whenever they are talking about the Falmer who lived during Ysgramor's time or King Harald's rule (time of the battle at the Moesring) but say Falmer when refering to modern day Falmer.

How we view the conflict between the ancient Nord and the Snowelves is pretty much up to the player's own interpretation of the available ingame literature and NPC talk I think.
I personally consider what followed the attack on Saarthal genocide, but again, it's just my personal interpretation based on what little information we've been given.

It is stated that the ancient Nord killed the Falmer by the thousands (Enthir says this during the Thiefs Guild quest). A diary can be found in a Dragon Priest tomb near Riften that describes how the ancient Nord chased the apparently retreating Snowelves practically all over the province until they (the Nord) took a break from pursuing the elves (they're encountering less and less of them) to find out more about the Priests and their treasures. You can not take time off from fighting a war unless your enemy is horribly outnumbered anyway - or you are still calling it war, because it somehow escaped your notice that you are fighting civillians armed with daggers by now. Not all Falmer can have been warriors after all. There must have been children, elderly and people with no fighting experience among them, but the ancient Nord intended to purge Skyrim of the elven pest for good and so they did. There's also a book in the Dwemer Museum that describes the ancient Nord as the only human settlers in Tamriel who did not manage to establish (at least for a prolonged period of time) a peaceful coexistance with the native elven population.

We don't know what the Snowelves or rather their mentality were like, when they were still the proud elven population of Skyrim that rivaled even the Altmer in sophistication (Enthir again), but we know what the ancient Nord were like, and, well, history is written by the victors and yet they do not appear in a very favourable light in the history books where this conflict is concerned. They value honour, but this purge doesn't sound very honourable to me.

I do not kill Falmer btw. unless I see them killing people as well. (Frostflow Lighthouse and Liar's Retreat come to mind) We've been denied the option to actually interact with them, eventhough they are shown to have all kinds of servants, which is unrealistic to the extreme. If they have servants, they must be able and willing, at least under certain circumstances, to comunicate with other races. I usually sneak past them, when I encounter them in Dwemer ruins, because I basically broke into their home. I even returned what we stole during the thiefs guild quest to Irkngthand after completing all the related quests.
As much as they disgust me (not their appearance, but their cruelty), stealing something of such sentimental value from people who have fallen so deeply already was wrong. I'd rather not stoop to their (current?) level.

It belongs to any one who's strong enough to hold onto it.

Nords are a decent bunch but occasionally you get the odd extremist *cough* Ulfrick Stormcloak. Other then that, as a whole they are quite a peaceful race.... not planning to take over Tamriel or destroy Nirn.

You've said my thoughts, better than I thought I could!

I don′t judge the race by Ulfric Stormcloak, I judge the race by my experience I got by playing TES since Morrowind. And the Nords are usually shown as gruesome, stupid and wild drunkards, that always search for a possiblity to fight and "prove" themselves. The Nord don′t really care for the reason to fight or who they fight, they just do it.

Taking the tomb of the Snow Prince aside, where did you encounter barrows they′ve built as a memory to their enemies? I didn′t encounter any.

When the culture the Imperials forced on them is removed, only savagery and the hunger for bloodshed is left.

This actually makes a lot of sense, they only time got Barrows for people they hate, is for revenge, Geirmund quest. In beginning of Skyrim there a woman you can meet a Nord woman, who when ya try speak to her, wishes to begin a fight with ya. Why, no idea, but this really shows current mood of Nords. We know only what history allowed us to know of the Snow Elf culture, what cities did they original live in, what God they worship, all these questions, they need answers.

But back to previous point, do Nords cling to religion as it's only thing keeping them civilized, interesting quandary.

This thread is painfully politically correct.

Saying 'well this one Nord is racist so I hate all of 'em,' as a lot of you have done, is hilariously ironic.

As for 'Skyrim for the Nords,' it's less racist than it is anti-imperial. No-one called William Wallace racist when he shouted 'freedom' in Braveheart; why call the Nords racist when they do the same thing, only with more syllables?

Gallow please don't do that again, situation don't even compare at all, for one Robert the Bruce was the only one who could have become King, and while Wallace did some great battle, his cry of Freedom was different, it was more get control of England out of Scotland, and to be independent. Whereas Nords aren't just about freedom, as evidenced by some of their philosophy.

If you wish to make comparison, try know the history please, I'm from Scotland and found this rather insulting. England isn't like the Imperial and the Scots are not like the Nords!

Maybe this isn't really so much about religion (Talos), as it is about their cultural identiy though. An identity they are afraid to lose.
The Nord have always been warriors, and they have always solved differences primarily by fighting. They are very blunt and outspoken people who will never shy away from a confrontation. This seems to clash a little with what life is like in modern Skyrim though, where so many different races live together that one simply has to make concessions from time to time. The Nord seem to have had trouble with this from the beginning. I read in a book, that the ancient Nord couldn't even tell a Breton from an Elf at first. Other human settlers had interbred with the native elven population whereas they (the Nord) had simply gotten rid of the elves in their own province. It was therefor such a foreign concept to the Nord, that they could not fathom it and were completely astonished.

As for Snowelf culture: And here I thought I was the only one who found this complete and utter lack of anything build by the Snowelfs rather odd! I mean, we are in Skyrim here, homeland of the once mighty Snowelves and yet, all we get to see are ancient Nord tombs and Dwemer ruins? What a major letdown. Maybe they lived a nomadic lifestyle and didn't build any real cities though. It has been suggested before and would explain the lack of buildings. They supposedly were as advanced as the Altmer however, so it doesn't really fit. Another possibility is that the ancient Nord destroyed everything build by them so as to never be reminded of their enemies again. Egyptian pharaos did something similar. A few of them purged their predecessor's names from all temples and records, making it seem as though they had never existed. Or maybe the cities build by the Snowelves were nice to look at but too fragile to last for hundreds and hundreds of years. I think it's save to say that very few structures are as sturdy as the Dwemer cities. Dwemer buildings were build to last, but Snowelf towns might very well have been reduced to rubble simply by the passage of time.

Required reading below, y'all.

Fall of the Snow Prince - This text feels depressingly bad like the witch kings end in LOTR.

Another view of the Nord v snow elf conflict:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Night_of_Tears_(book)
The Nords found something when they built their city, buried deep in the ground. They attempted to keep it buried, but the elves learned of it and coveted it for themselves. Thus they assaulted Saarthal, their goal not to drive the Nords out but to secure this power for themselves.

Hmm, could it be that it was in pursuit of the eye of magnus that they went underground and befriended the dwemer?

The one thing strikes me odd, and makes idea of them being nomad little strange, Irkingthad has a statue of their prince, Nomad people wouldn't waste doing this. It makes me wonder whether Bethesda considered these fact, but what of the ruins we see dotted about, the unknown ones, maybe they're ruins of Snow Elves city, but since no one knows much about them, then they're just simply landmarks. I would love to ask Beth whether they considered these factors.

As ya can see by the sig, the snow elves obsess and sadden me.

Well that's odd, since Nords founded the empire.


It's also pretty unrealistic, but it's a nice story.

We mentioned that book a few pages back. I do assume it was the Eye of Magnus they were after.

Note: not all Nords are stormcloaks.

I don't mind most Nords. Not a fan of Ulfric or Rolff Stone-Fist, and there are a few others who I also have problems with, but the majority of them seem quite nice.

[SPOILERS] You know what would make awesome DLC, going back in time to see certain events play out, like in the main quest where you see how they got rid of Alduin with the elder scroll. I would love to see the 500 companions fight the snow elves and even see other parts of elder scroll history. Like the events from Arena with Jagar Tharn and maybe even see some of Tiber Septim's achievements!