Empire or Stormcloak : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:07 pm

Except that the dominion caught the empire by surprise and the empire was winning Titus just lost his nerve.

Dont blame it on Titus, he's the one who led the final charge into the imperial city, liberating it from the Thalmor.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:18 pm

Yea I meant five as for the whole slavery thing, slavery =/= racism and Dunmer are actually very much different depending on where you find them for instance if you really want racist dunmer go towards Telvannis and Tears, the homes of the Telvanni and Dres though most Telvanni only care for studying and are actually not all that racist. Indoril doesn't mind outsiders but they hate being controlled by them, Hlaalu love them as for the camonna tong they are just gangsters and Redoran are pretty much the second less Xenophobic house. Each house is more then a political faction, they are a culture and a way of life.

Well I don't agree that slavery =/= racism. But good argument for the rest of the quote.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Found the quote its a few paragraphs down. http://www.imperial-library.info/content/real-barenziah-v2

Fair enough, there's no proof which one is right though.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:05 am

Except that the dominion caught the empire by surprise and the empire was winning Titus just lost his nerve.

When your leader is weak, you are weak. =/
My character has no stake in the war, but he does not support the Empire.
Nor will he go out his way to help Stormcloaks. He is simply looking to better the Orsimer race, which he believes cannot thrive under the Empire. =/
He, however, can see the weakness of the Empire....

Spoiler

The Emperor is dead, Skyrim is leaving, Hammerfell is lost, Black Marsh doesn't care, the Dunmer are rebuilding, and thanks to their inaction over the years, the Orsimer are too few.
If that isn't weak, I don't know what is.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:34 am

I support the Stormcloaks. They fight to free their land from the weakened grip of a dying empire. The Empire fights to keep everything under their control, when they themselves are under the control of the Altmer.

Also, the empire does attempt to kill you without a second thought for no apparent reason in the beginning. Just saying.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:02 am

Dont blame it on Titus, he's the one who led the final charge into the imperial city, liberating it from the Thalmor.

Yeah, he was a brilliant tactician but that doesn't excuse that he accepted the treaty when they were winning and the treaty was not even a fair deal, the empire didn't get anything from the treaty while dominion get hammerfell.

I respect Titus but that doesn't mean that he didn't make mistake.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:22 am

When your leader is weak, you are weak. =/
My character has no stake in the war, but he does not support the Empire.
Nor will he go out his way to help Stormcloaks. He is simply looking to better the Orsimer race, which he believes cannot thrive under the Empire. =/
He, however, can see the weakness of the Empire....

Spoiler

The Emperor is dead, Skyrim is leaving, Hammerfell is lost, Black Marsh doesn't care, the Dunmer are rebuilding, and thanks to their inaction over the years, the Orsimer are too few.
If that isn't weak, I don't know what is.

Spoiler

How can you call a man weak, who calmly accepts his death, fought in the frontlines during the great war, and who was badass enough to wield goldbrand?

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:44 am

Yeah, he was a brilliant tactician but that doesn't excuse that he accepted the treaty when they were winning and the treaty was not even a fair deal, the empire didn't get anything from the treaty while dominion get hammerfell.

I respect Titus but that doesn't mean that he didn't make mistake.

I can agree with you there.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:25 pm

Well I don't agree that slavery =/= racism. But good argument for the rest of the quote.

Its very much true, in fact the only society to have slavery based on racism would be the Christian ruled countries before slavery became illegal, back during the Roman empire and Egyptians slavery was just depended either you were a criminal, a prisoner of war or sold into it at birth. While yes slavery is pretty much the same near Dres territory but rest of Morrowind its different, slaves are usually bought from the Dres or were sold when they were a baby or sold their rights away, also I'd like to inform you that a decent amount of slaves were captured by Khajiits and Argonians in elsewyr and Black marsh.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:28 am

Spoiler

How can you call a man weak, who calmly accepts his death, fought in the frontlines during the great war, and who was badass enough to wield goldbrand?

Spoiler

His spirit was weak, perhaps he was so eager to get out of this mess he got himself into =/ Perhaps he viewed his assassination as his punishment from the gods

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:13 pm

To me the Stormcloaks are racists at worst and xenophobes at best. Not all of the Stormcloaks are elf-hating racists but those different shades of Stormcloaks have one thing in common: They don't like foreigners (or at least elves).

And the empire is built on the foundational idea that men should rule over the other races...

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:30 pm

Its very much true, in fact the only society to have slavery based on racism would be the Christian ruled countries before slavery became illegal, back during the Roman empire and Egyptians slavery was just depended either you were a criminal, a prisoner of war or sold into it at birth. While yes slavery is pretty much the same near Dres territory but rest of Morrowind its different, slaves are usually bought from the Dres or were sold when they were a baby or sold their rights away, also I'd like to inform you that a decent amount of slaves were captured by Khajiits and Argonians in elsewyr and Black marsh.

Hmmm have not played morrowind in 4 years, were any of the slaves treated properly?

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:55 pm

And the empire is built on the foundational idea that men should rule over the other races...

Except for the fact that the empire allowed each province to keep there unique culture, and was willing to sacrifice humans to save Orcs?

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:21 pm

Red or blue? That's what it really comes down to!

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:05 pm

Hmmm have not played morrowind in 4 years, were any of the slaves treated properly?

Again depends on where you go, Redoran never used slaves they saw slavery as being weak, some Hlaalu treated slaves either fine or extremely hard, Telvanni were actually really nice to their slaves and would eventually release them after awhile, Dres would work the slaves to the bone, and indoril would work them hard. But eventually Slavery was abolished by the Dres, Hlaalu and King Helseth though apparently it didn't last long.

Except for the fact that the empire allowed each province to keep there unique culture, and was willing to sacrifice humans to save Orcs?

This, I've been pointing out this for awhile. The empire isn't about "Humans should rule everyone" its about bringing peace to a hectic land.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:29 am

When your leader is weak, you are weak. =/
My character has no stake in the war, but he does not support the Empire.
Nor will he go out his way to help Stormcloaks. He is simply looking to better the Orsimer race, which he believes cannot thrive under the Empire. =/
He, however, can see the weakness of the Empire....

Spoiler

The Emperor is dead, Skyrim is leaving, Hammerfell is lost, Black Marsh doesn't care, the Dunmer are rebuilding, and thanks to their inaction over the years, the Orsimer are too few.
If that isn't weak, I don't know what is.

Yeah, pretty much Titus was agreat emperor and I respect him for that, but I think it's due time for a change in leadership anyway, Titus is already too weary of war to be able to lead the empire against the dominion successfully, And yes, the empire is in disarray but as many points out the dominion is not exactly on perfect condition while of course they're not as weak as when they come out from the battle against hammerfell.

However, the stormcloaks were losing to the Skyrim legionaries before the dovahkiin came, which was only a fraction of the empire power if the stormcloaks supporters argue that the stormcloaks can beat the dominion than so can the empire

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:46 am

Its very much true, in fact the only society to have slavery based on racism would be the Christian ruled countries before slavery became illegal, back during the Roman empire and Egyptians slavery was just depended either you were a criminal, a prisoner of war or sold into it at birth. While yes slavery is pretty much the same near Dres territory but rest of Morrowind its different, slaves are usually bought from the Dres or were sold when they were a baby or sold their rights away, also I'd like to inform you that a decent amount of slaves were captured by Khajiits and Argonians in elsewyr and Black marsh.

Slavery and racism are the same thing, discrimination. With slavery you think yourself above that person because you believe you are superior for many varying reasons, including race, but racism goes along with the belief you are superior only because of your race. Both are equally as bad, discrimination for whatever reason is wrong. Doesn't matter how you paint hit. =/
Punishing a man by enslaving him, whether it be for his race or his actions, is wrong. Yes, I am a Christian

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:12 am

Fact is there are no non-nord stormcloaks while there are non-nord or non-imperial legionaries. So while both are racist I think Imperial is less racist.

Kind of like http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak.jpghttp://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak-1.jpg eh? What a racist.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:37 am

Its very much true, in fact the only society to have slavery based on racism would be the Christian ruled countries before slavery became illegal, back during the Roman empire and Egyptians slavery was just depended either you were a criminal, a prisoner of war or sold into it at birth. While yes slavery is pretty much the same near Dres territory but rest of Morrowind its different, slaves are usually bought from the Dres or were sold when they were a baby or sold their rights away, also I'd like to inform you that a decent amount of slaves were captured by Khajiits and Argonians in elsewyr and Black marsh.

Way i see it if you have someone as your slave you are just saying that the slave, whoever they may be are below you. I consider that racism if most of the slaves the dunmer kept happened to not be other dunmer. Though they did keep a few elven slaves if i remember correctly. Also I am a Christian as well. :cool:

I just don't like slavery or racism in general.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:53 am

Kind of like http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak.jpghttp://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak-1.jpg eh? What a racist.

Look http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-npc-Legate_Fasendil.jpg

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:00 am

However, the stormcloaks were losing to the Skyrim legionaries before the dovahkiin came, which was only a fraction of the empire power if the stormcloaks supporters argue that the stormcloaks can beat the dominion than so can the empire

Actually, the Stormcloaks were winning Skyrim till Tullius came around, making it a stalemate.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:43 am

Kind of like http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak.jpghttp://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv146/gmosko/Skyrim/redguardstormcloak-1.jpg eh? What a racist.

Yep, but we didn't know if he's actually accepted or not I don't see any non-nords in stormcloaks ranks.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:53 pm

Actually, the Stormcloaks were winning Skyrim till Tullius came around, making it a stalemate.

Shows how much a badass he was :biggrin:

He nearly won the war at the start of the game.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:43 pm

Actually, the Stormcloaks were winning Skyrim till Tullius came around, making it a stalemate.

Yeah, when Tulius came along the empire was winning left and right and Ulfric is captured. I stand by my piint that it wasn't the empire full power still a fraction and it's enough to almost put down the rebellion if the dragon hadn't interfened.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:27 am

Again you guys are reading to much into what slavery was like in real life which was what the europeans during the middle ages did, slavery wasn't always "I'm of a superior race then you" in fact the Romans, egyptians and greeks all had slaves that were romans, egyptians and greeks and TES wise there were Dunmer slaves in Morrowind as well, in fact the nords use to have slaves as well. Back during the Nord empire during the first era they have enslaves the inhabitants of Morrowind and hammerfall.