You have to do the quests.. again.

Just did a little test in Fallout 3. I literally obliterated a super mutant with 10MM smg on lvl3... :facepalm:

I just get baffled by anyone that wants to "explore" over an awesome story and other things I listed.

The fact that the main quest can be viewed as an afterthought and the world itself is the heart of the game....that can be satisfying.

FNV is more fun for me because of fear. In Oblivion, you never really felt fear. You could wander anywhere, go into any cave or dungeon without fear. It was the Goldilocks syndrome. You knew you'd never encounter anything that was too hard (or too easy). Everything was just right. So there were no surprises. No chance of "OMG! WTF is that?! Run!!!" It was just smooth sailing the whole way through, which is boring.

In FNV you can literally turn a corner and run into a Deathclaw who will rip your head off in one hit. That keeps you on your toes, keeps you cautious and leery, and that is where the fun comes from.

Compared to Fallout 3's ability to let you explore at any level. In FO3 you can explore right off the bat, because the game is much easier, yes, but it is also designed with freedom in mind. This was fun for me as I get bored of playing one build, and I like to make the most of my sandbox games. I find fun in going back and playing a new character in a new way I.E. a demolitionist or a melee bruiser. In Fallout 3 enemies scaled with your level, so if you ran into a super mutant at level 3, you could beat him down with only a baseball bat on your back. You could do the same with only a 10mm pistol, or a frag grenade, a sneak attack, etc. Basically, you were over-powered. But, that's what made the game fun in my opinion. NPCs would also get more difficult when you leveled up though, so the system worked. RPGs aren't about being difficult, atleast not the fun ones; when the game gets hard you just go back and level up some more, or change your strategy. It's completely different from the comparison of easy to hard in twitch based FPS games. In those games you have to be good at aiming, dodging, etc or you won't do well.

In Fallout: New Vegas I am hindered by the bugs at the moment. I can't bring my characters past Novac. I lock up during the Come Fly With Me quest/Helios One quests. So, I've been starting new characters with different builds that I would have gotten around to trying anyway, to save time and allow me to continue to play the game. Let me just say that in New Vegas you get punished for exploration. If you don't take the path to Novac via questing, you're going to run into deathclaws, cazzaros (sp) or giant radscorpions ALL THE TIME. Hell, I even got attacked by like 7 ceasar's legion guys once, and in hardscore mode that = instant death.

In the early levels, you just can't continue to fight 3-5 giant rad scorps all the time. It eats away your stimpaks and ammo, and if you're a melee character; forget it.

Please take note before you reply that I am not saying that New Vegas is a bad game, I love the game, it's a lot of fun. I am merely pointing out that in my opinion the game play is a lot more similar to Fallout 1 and 2. You had a big huge world to explore, but you couldn't explore it freely until you were powerful enough to survive.

I have just one more thing to say. Where are mods for melee weapons and explosives? Gun mods are everywhere in the game. Yet it would be easier to put nails in a baseball bat, but that isn't an option. How about tinkering with a grenade so that it detonates on impact, not on time, or has a more powerful explosion (more gunpowder)? What about a sticky bomb (ala Saving Private Ryan or Halo series) that sticks to your opponent and then detonates? These would be fun mods, but unfortunately only ranged weapons seem to have them. Then again, because of game crippling bugs I haven't been able to get past the Novac part of the storyline.

Basically, my complaint is that I'm starting over again (due to bugs) so I can continue to play my game, and when faced with exploration I am getting slaughtered by enemies way past my level. Sometimes right outside of the starting towns. If I want to level up, I need to follow the quests and storyline, or be an evil character and steal everything I come across (which I could do, I just don't want to). Basically I am feeling limited in what should be a game of ultimate glorious sandbox freedom.

I do agree that NV is better than FO3 in terms of voice acting and storyline. They're top notch. I just don't really like the world design and lack of freedom.

I think I figured it out. The complaint isn't that the game is linear. The complaint is that it's harder to diverge from the beaten path at lower levels.

That players should be able to explore anywhere at any level. That if the player wants to go north and fight through Deathclaws on the way to Vegas and beyond at level 2, it should be possible. That dangerous enemies shouldn't be dangerous.

It's because when I think of exploration, I think of exploring- while based on the explanation given above, the "lacking exploration" complaint isn't about a lack of ability to explore, or a lack of locations- it's a lack of loot at those locations being thrown around like candy.

What do you want to find? more items?

I'd rather a game have greater story then exploration. What's so great about exploring in FO3 over New Vegas? Many locations in FO3 have nothing there other then skill books. Big deal another way to be super human. The Devs of FO New Vegas had over a decade sitting on ideas for a Fallout. That's alot of time to work on a great story.

FNV is more fun for me because of fear. In Oblivion, you never really felt fear. You could wander anywhere, go into any cave or dungeon without fear. It was the Goldilocks syndrome. You knew you'd never encounter anything that was too hard (or too easy). Everything was just right. So there were no surprises. No chance of "OMG! WTF is that?! Run!!!" It was just smooth sailing the whole way through, which is boring.

To answer all these quotes.
The exploration lead to nice little touches, flourishes in the game world, it added Atmosphere!
For example finding the house with the Mr Handy reading too the long dead children was not about loot, it was about adding to the world.
(Other examples are the skeletons in various places, giving glimpses at few seconds of life before the war.)

I feel that FO3 had a better atmosphere (and in turn felt like a better post apocalypse game) than FNV, I've not found any really gripping or poignant little touches exploring the Mojave that really added anything significant to the atmosphere.

I'd somewhat agree:

although there are more plot choices that can affect the overall outcome and more side quests I'd say the side quests all seem to go along with the larger story.

In FO3 you could quit the main quest for a bit to go stop superheroes or giant ants

Here you can stop helping the NCR fight House or the Legion to go help find their supplies or something.

Wha wha and wha?!?!?!?

You can quit the FNV main quest WHENEVER you want to.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

I meant that all the side quests were related to the main quest. In FO3 they were a bit wacky and different but here they spin off from the main quest so even if you do them they still seem like somehow part of the overall arc while stopping Superheroes in FO3 doesn't.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

I meant that all the side quests were related to the main quest. In FO3 they were a bit wacky and different but here they spin off from the main quest so even if you do them they still seem like somehow part of the overall arc while stopping Superheroes in FO3 doesn't.

I disagree. Maybe if you only partook in the main story and then stopped playing FO3...

You never took your first stroll to old olney?

You never got wiped out by your first mirelurk hunter?

You never got stepped on by a random Behemoth?

Don't tell me you knew about the Dart Gun strat from day 1 playing the game! There were plenty of those moments in FO3 and you really weren't as OP as people claim. Furthermore, beyond the obvious roadblocks I feel very similarly powerful in New Vegas.. Most of the enemies I'm 'supposed' to be fighting are a cakewalk to defeat, with the right perks, ammo and timing.

Edit: ahem, just noticed you said oblivion not FO3, however I'm keeping the post as others seem to believe FO3 was a cakewalk 100% through >_>;

To answer all these quotes.
The exploration lead to nice little touches, flourishes in the game world, it added Atmosphere!
For example finding the house with the Mr Handy reading too the long dead children was not about loot, it was about adding to the world.
(Other examples are the skeletons in various places, giving glimpses at few seconds of life before the war.)

I feel that FO3 had a better atmosphere (and in turn felt like a better post apocalypse game) than FNV, I've not found any really gripping or poignant little touches exploring the Mojave that really added anything significant to the atmosphere.

I can only presume that's because you're desentized by the exposure in Fallout 3. Did you ever find out about the kidnapping at the hotel in Primm? Ever get the details on why there's a Handy in Novac? Ever find Trash?

New Vegas has details aplenty.

I agree whole heartedly, in new vegas when im running around in the mojave, i have yet to find a place that that makes me say "wow there was a world before this and now its gone" which is a feeling I was constantly getting in Fallout 3 (and still get). Interesting that you mentioned the Mr. Handy at the house in georgetown as I thought that was the great example of the atmosphere that fallout 3 could create, I literally got chills when he started reading "And There Will Come Soft Rains" because that poem epitomizes what the world of the fallout series represents.

Atmosphere however, is what can make a game replayable.

I'm not sure who is arguing that. My opinion is that the most dangerous enemies in the game shouldn't be placed as a roadblock right outside of the starting point. It's not that they should be killable by a level 2 character, it's that they shouldn't be there to begin with. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that preference for little more open exploration at lower levels is so incredibly hard to understand that it spawns ridiculous distortions like the above.

Also I couldn't for the life of me remember that poem name when I was writing thanks

Thats what I like about New Vegas. It brings back the challenge. FO3 bugs be because its to easy. I can win the game at a very low level. Fallout IMO is not meant to be a "sand box game." If you run into something beyond your level then go back and think of away to kill it. Find many some of the many unmarked quests that New Vegas has. Quests that aren't "Good" or "Evil." New Vegas for me gives me plenty of ways to waste time doing "sand box" things. I go hunting, drinking, gambling and mess around with landmines. If your problem is "its to hard" then lower the setting to easy.

I get bored of playing one build, and I like to make the most of my sandbox games. I find fun in going back and playing a new character in a new way I.E. a demolitionist or a melee bruiser.

In Fallout: New Vegas I am hindered by the bugs at the moment. I can't bring my characters past Novac.[....] If you don't take the path to Novac via questing, you're going to run into deathclaws, cazzaros (sp) or giant radscorpions ALL THE TIME.