How are the Legion a threat to the NCR again?

Post » Tue May 31, 2011 3:26 am

Incorrect. The U.S helped to resupply British and french forces during the war, although that wasn't the problem for the Ludendorff offensive it was the fact that American forces arrived shortly after and it made the offensive pretty much worthless, after the spring offensive British and French forces were left crippled, but so was the German army, and with the Americans in the picture the German army was in no position to fight the war any longer.


No it's correct. The British had been buying American shells since 1914. The US presence in the war had minimal effect on the amount of supplies the Entente could've purchased from overseas. Well at least you now agree that American troops didn't play a significant role in stopping the Spring Offensive as you earlier claimed but you're still wrong when you claim the offensive was only a failure because American troops arrived afterwards. Even if no American troops had arrived the offensive was still a failure and the British and French were still capable of fighting on. In the Hundreds Days Offensive that wrecked the German Army about 90% of the casualties sustained by the Entente were suffered by the British Empire, France and Belgium. There was a grand total of 1 American division committed to the opening Battle of Amiens out of 24 total. The American entry into the war was a significant moral boost but its effect on the Entente's military capacity was not that great.

Vietnam and Korea are not examples of total war but they are comparable conflicts to what is happening in Vegas. An overambitious democracy tries to play the role of the expansionist and gets it's pants pulled down by a Autocrat who knows how to fight a war. Although in Korea American troops were better equipped, and trained in the battles that were fought. But i will get to my point in both conflicts they didn't have the support of the American public, otherwise Truman would've just blown the Chinese to kingdom come, and in Vietnam it would've just led to the complete destruction of the northern province.


Right but you're reversing the roles. You see it's the NCR that has possession of the Mojave. The Legion is the invading force. What's more they're a despised invading force. Now that I think about it the situation is anologous to the Korean War but in the sense that Caesar is the North and if he pushes across the Colorado is just going to get inevitably slapped down by a roused NCR and wiped out. Only difference is there won't be a China to bail him out.
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KU Fint
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 10:07 pm


Right but you're reversing the roles. You see it's the NCR that has possession of the Mojave. The Legion is the invading force. What's more they're a despised invading force. Now that I think about it the situation is anologous to the Korean War but in the sense that Caesar is the North and if he pushes across the Colorado is just going to get inevitably slapped down by a roused NCR and wiped out. Only difference is there won't be a China to bail him out.


Except for the fact that the NCR is in no position to fight and win a war. The NCR public doesn't give two hoots about Vegas and the ambitions of president Kimbell. Invading California is a different matter altogether. The legion doesnt have the industrial capacity yet for an invasion of California. I'm guessing Ceaser is aware of this Lanius not so much...
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Ellie English
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:04 am

Thats motivation for you :P
I see alot of revolts in the legion coming soon.


Punishable by death..

:whistling:
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Mr. Allen
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:26 am

Punishable by death..

:whistling:


This. the Fort isnt the main base of the Legion, so if someone "get smarts" the High ones from the east gonna teach you a lesson
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Baby K(:
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 10:40 pm

I honestly hope the CL whips East-coast BoS (D.C. Carebears at least.) ass by killing them and taking over washington.

:verymad:
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Logan Greenwood
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 2:36 am

This. the Fort isnt the main base of the Legion, so if someone "get smarts" the High ones from the east gonna teach you a lesson

The 'high ones', like Caesar, the leader of Caesar's legion, and all of his associates, who are actually at the fort?
I think for them, the fort is now their main base of operations, so there isn't any miscommunication between Caesar and his army
Then again, you don't mess with Lanius
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Nuno Castro
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 11:43 am

Caesar is only there to see the (possible, yet likely) fall of Hoover Dam led by Lanius, And just in case he fails like Graham did.

That is not their main base of operations, And if I remember correctly, New Canaan is their capital.
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Stryke Force
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:29 am

New Canaan isn't the base, it's flagstaff, int he north of Arizona.
Anyway, Caesar has basically brought most of his higher-ups with him (Aurelius, vulpes and lanius) to the fort so... I think the only thing in flagstaff is people, not their main head of government (currently anyway)
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DarkGypsy
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 1:43 am

Its a game. Realistically they couldn't. Not with the numbers they brought to the Mojave.
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Jack
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 6:34 am

New Canaan isn't the base, it's flagstaff, int he north of Arizona.
Anyway, Caesar has basically brought most of his higher-ups with him (Aurelius, vulpes and lanius) to the fort so... I think the only thing in flagstaff is people, not their main head of government (currently anyway)


Aurelius is just a Centurion (He is'nt an important person in the government.) Vulpes is a high ranking spy. (Not too involved with Caesars circle.) and Lanius? He's the head of the military, And we don't know that Caesar ONLY has those people as High ranking officals.

That would be ridiculous, He most likely (By most likely, I mean most definantly) has alot more High Ranking officals heading his land while he's away.
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Matt Fletcher
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 9:50 pm

That would be ridiculous, He most likely (By most likely, I mean most definantly) has alot more High Ranking officals heading his land while he's away.

Fair enough, but to me, Caesar seems to be a bit more headstrong and full of himself to leave many behind. Also though, in a government like his, lanius, as well as being head of military, would act as one of his officials
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Gaelle Courant
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:01 am

That would be ridiculous, He most likely (By most likely, I mean most definantly) has alot more High Ranking officals heading his land while he's away.

Fair enough, but to me, Caesar seems to be a bit more headstrong and full of himself to leave many behind. Also though, in a government like his, lanius, as well as being head of military, would act as one of his officials anyway
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Kevin S
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:35 pm

The NCR is scrambled and confused. They barely know who to answer to, and their OWN people don't directly follow orders. Camp Golf radio. The scientist and the jungle vault. Whereas the legion follow Caesar, he tells them to bit their fingers off, they do it. All orders come from him. The legionaries are like Spartans, trained from childhood with amazing discipline, whereas the NCR are free men, who just picked up a gun. As said, NCR have too many recruits, not enough captains.
Sure NCR have guns, but they can't aim for anything.
I saw 5 legionaries duel with about 8 NCR, legion won. Their spears, machetes, occasional gun, you CANNOT prepare for a fight like that. A gun is the NCR's only preparation, legionaries are unpredictable, they will bite your balls, whereas the NCR have rules and morals. Look at the US congress today, how long does it take them to do ANYTHING. Imagine if a quick acting force armed with high powered BB guns came in, and the US was acting like the NCR.
The guns fall to the BBs.
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Alycia Leann grace
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 10:01 am

Well the legion are a bunch of total bad butts that's kill you with their own hands if they can or die trying. The Ncr is afraid of them for many reasons and over estimate them.
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Clea Jamerson
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 8:27 am

If you talk to some ncr folks they say a lot of the people fighting are recruits not soldiers.
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Nicole M
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 11:02 pm

I just got done wasting everyone on the game in terms of easiest faction to destroy were the Legion agreed they have all of the above it still doesn't stop me from killing all of em......

I can also kill twenty men at once in the game, doesn't mean that in real life even with training I could take twenty men. The courier is made to be superior.
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Sarah Evason
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 9:56 pm

Except legion has better technology and a functioning army. The fact that a single army is likely capable of destroying the NCR in vegas just shows the incompetence of the NCR military. But like all democracies they stand no chance in total war. After a significant amount of causalities the war effort would come tumbling down.


Horse-hockey....."democracies" can stand up to casualties as long as the citizenry believes it's necessary. The Civil War went on...in spite of the appalling casualties lists...for years until the Confederate government fell apart and it's armies still in the field found themselves fighting for a central government that no longer existed. The Allies in WW2 were mostly "democratic" and prevailed in spite of massive casualties. There is nothing wrong with the NCR effort in the Mojave that cashiering Oliver and installing Hsu (preferably) or even Moore (unlike Oliver she is at least competent) in his place couldn't fix. But then the man in charge...Kimball...is a idiot too, and part of the problem so that isn't going to happen. Losing the Dam would finish him politically and probably sweep his enemies into power, the NCR has immense latent strength that only requires competent leadership to tap. If anything keeps Caesar awake at night, it's the thought that Kimball might be replaced by someone who knows what they're doing and then he would be in trouble.
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Kirsty Collins
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 8:16 pm

I think that Hsu and Moore are the perfect candidates for the next elections XD
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 10:12 am

No not really. The NCR are far from perfect.
The Legion wont last long after Caesar dies anyway :wink_smile:


Which makes killing Lanius and Caesar all the more awesome: knowing that the power vacuum will turn the legion into warring clans and effectively destroy them as a power in places like Arizona and New Mexico in a matter of months.
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louise tagg
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 9:32 pm

Horse-hockey....."democracies" can stand up to casualties as long as the citizenry believes it's necessary. The Civil War went on...in spite of the appalling casualties lists...for years until the Confederate government fell apart and it's armies still in the field found themselves fighting for a central government that no longer existed. The Allies in WW2 were mostly "democratic" and prevailed in spite of massive casualties. There is nothing wrong with the NCR effort in the Mojave that cashiering Oliver and installing Hsu (preferably) or even Moore (unlike Oliver she is at least competent) in his place couldn't fix. But then the man in charge...Kimball...is a idiot too, and part of the problem so that isn't going to happen. Losing the Dam would finish him politically and probably sweep his enemies into power, the NCR has immense latent strength that only requires competent leadership to tap. If anything keeps Caesar awake at night, it's the thought that Kimball might be replaced by someone who knows what they're doing and then he would be in trouble.


A defeat in Vegas for the NCR would finalize any future war efforts in that region for the NCR. Any modern democracy would not support future war efforts after such a catastrophic failure. Although a generalization democracies are highly ineffectual because they depend so heavily on the support of the public, it is why the Legion could fail ten times over to take the dam and continue to engage with the NCR. One defeat for the NCR is all it takes to send them home running. I would imagine the NCR has invested a ludicrous amount of resources into vegas as well as bases outside the vegas area. Think of it this way

Imagine:

President Kimbell dying to an assassination
The complete destruction of nearby NCR armies
NCR caravan and supply lines cut off
A Legion controlled vegas

Even the bureaucrats that supported this mess will count their losses, and never think about it again.
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Bethany Short
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 7:45 am

All this squabble. This is why I support House, and not NCR or Legion. :spotted owl:
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Undisclosed Desires
 
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Post » Mon May 30, 2011 10:40 pm

Historically speaking: as technollogy advances, the people with the new technology end up winning. While the Legion holds back from using Technollogy, it's only this way to show that every one of them is willing to sacrifice himself to kill you. They have the technology required, they just don't always use it, and I hate to tell you all this, but have you seen Camp searchlight? That's why the legion is a threat. They live with carefully selected morals designed around fanaticism and justifying their slaughter and conflict, they are chauvinistic supremacists that claim to be supporting the 'greater good' (by enslaving you all, and [censored] your women, and killing anyone who fights back.....) they're willing to do worse that the NCR, they have nothing holding them back. If a boar charges you, you can shoot it, but it'll die impaling you, now imagine that the boar is a man with a power fist, and there're 10 of them, and 2 of them have hunting rifles. There're more of them, they have nothing to lose, they are willing to do ANYTHING!
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helliehexx
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 3:06 am

Which makes killing Lanius and Caesar all the more awesome: knowing that the power vacuum will turn the legion into warring clans and effectively destroy them as a power in places like Arizona and New Mexico in a matter of months.


At least Lanius can fight, Kimball on the other hand, his dead means a lot of problems for the NCR,
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Janeth Valenzuela Castelo
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 12:10 pm

At least Lanius can fight, Kimball on the other hand, his dead means a lot of problems for the NCR,

If his death meant the NCRs quick withdrawl out of Vegas, I'd say his death does more good than harm, his and Olivers Manifest Destiny behavior has caused the NCR more harm than good.
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Jade
 
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Post » Tue May 31, 2011 8:43 am

If his death meant the NCRs quick withdrawl out of Vegas, I'd say his death does more good than harm, his and Olivers Manifest Destiny behavior has caused the NCR more harm than good.


Fair enough, but, what its gonna happen to the NCR, in California?
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An Lor
 
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