That is something that Beth could've easily added in, custom spells with different effects. You go to a menu and select what type of spell you want to create and the different effects such as distance, possible AOE type effect, the amount of damage, etc.

Because they don't want effects breaking the game on both PCs and Consoles? I remember breaking the game in Oblivion by setting the radius to the highest setting and just shooting everything. Anyways the game has dragons breathing fire, natural explosions within the spells, particles effects, and HDR so I don't see graphics being the sole reason it was left out.


I encourage you to sit down with a piece of paper and a document and map out a way that spell making would work. Because the way you detailed doesn't even scratch the surface of what spell making would have to include with the new magic system.

Unfortunately Skyrim's spell system is very simple because there is no custom spellmaking and a low number of spells.

Oblivion's spell system wasn't exactly hard or complex either.

I'll ask what made the Oblivion system more complex? And to take it a step further what did Spellmaking do to make it even more complex?

Maybe if the 360's hardware wasn't so bloody old and slow, such things would be no issue. I'm sure the Bethesda developers are pretty frustrated that when making Skyrim for consoles, so much potential is limited by the hardware. PC gamers are having the ride of their lives...

Oblivion had many more individual spell effects that would have added some variety to mages in Skyrim. Damage Health (magic damage), Absorb Attribute, Damage Weapon/Armor, damage magick resistance, etc. If these base spells were just in the game, the dual casting system would have been so much more fun. Casting damage magick resistance in one hand absorb health in the other, things like that.

All that was needed were those base spells, IMO.

Damage health/Magicka is still in the game (part of the fire, and shock spells). Absorb attribute wouldn't work (as there are are no attributes). Damage weapons would work if it damaged the damage the weapon does, damage armor is part of a shout. Magic resistance is part of poisons but not really apart of any spells.

Honestly many spells are still in the game, they're just spread out into other areas of the game. One could argue about how effective having magic resistance poisons are, but that is for another argument.

Just because they are secondary effects, does not mean that those spells are in the game. And if they are spread out into other areas of the game, they are not spells. You could cast absorb Health, Magicka, Stamina. That's what I meant by attributes. Damage armor is a part of ONE shout. Because there is a firebreath shout, there should be no fire damage spells?

Are you arguing for the spell to be in the game, or the effect? Because if you're arguing for the spell to be in the game then redundancy is what you'll get, much like previous titles. In many ways cold should affect fatigue, fire should affect health based upon how elements work, this system is more true to elemental damage in fantasy games, rather than adding spells that have a slight variation.

The game has become a system of managing what you have, rather than absorbing, stealing, or altering to fill something you don't have.

The spell, of course. They didn't need to combine spell effects like damage stamina, magicka, slow, etc. I would have prefered to have all the base spells in the game, especially since spellmaking was removed. I feel it was condensed too far. Not to say that I haven't had fun playing a mage character, mind you....

The only way that spell making is different in Skyrim is the charge and cast method and the throwers spells big deal. Oh yes and duel handed spells.
Give us the duration, magnitude, area of effect and let us create our own spells the way we wish.
If you use a duel casted spell it increases power and magic cost.
Also bring back all of the cut spells and magic would be great again.

They are not "spells" if they are spread out into other areas of the game like alchemy and shouts.

One man's "redundancy" is another man's "variety."

Yes, really. Get over it.

The effect is still in the game (which ultimately is the main reason to use the spell) the spell (or vessel) no longer is. I don't see how this is such a big deal if you spread out the effects to other areas of the game.


Redundancy makes the game watered down and boring. You had spells that did the exact same thing but with different names.

Strange how the spell system offers so much less than the older games in the series and people are ok with that. I want the variety you mention I want all of the old spells from Morrowind, maybe its the grphical fluff that has people blinded by the lack of depth in Skyrims system.

I wish Erander, chunkyman, and Xarnac was here to back me up on this.

More is more, less is less and with Skyrims magic system there is certainly less. We could have had the other spell effects and spell creation with the duel hand, chanrge, and thrower spells that Skyrim has. With all of these things I mentioned it would make magic great again.

What a lot of these "SM is gone, get over it"-posters don't realize is, that the spellmaker enriched the game. It was an optional tool that could be used or ignored. Roleplaying is about doing stuff in your own style, in your own way. Most people have to play pen&paper to really do what they would like to do in a fantasy world, influence the setting etc. The removal of the SM caused the TES-Series to drift one step further away from this ideal "i can inprint my own ideas onto the setting". The spellmaker is a small step in this direction, but every step helps to make the experience more endearing.
Also, the spellmaker was one of the thing that made the TES special. Now it's gone.

About the dual casting:

It's really easy to fix. You just have to integrate using the same spells a prerequisite and assign 2 oder 3 possible effects from which you can choose one. For example: higher effect, longer duration,etc.
Then you chose one of these, spell finished. If you want another version, with another dual casting effect, make another one.

About killing the balance of the game:

No offence, but the smithing does this in an even more effective way.
You can walk around in a full deadra suit of armor at level 20-25. Integrate some enchantments, and you are nearly untouchable.
You also forget that you can balance spells in a lot of ways. Higher mana costs, limited area variables etc. There are a lot of options to keep the magic system in line without sacrificing anything.
These "arguments" are just an excuse for being lazy. I've developed magic systems and balancing factors in my spare time for three different P&P-systems with a friend and Bethesda has a LOT more intelligent people available.
There is no one smart or creative enough to pull this off? Come on! Invest 2 weeks for this, and believe me, you will figure something out!

@The Todd-Argument about limited console resources:

That Todd used this "excuse", true or not could be a good thing.
The next TES game will be released on the new consoles, so he can't use this "excuse" again.

For those of you, who don't miss the spellmaker:

You don't have to use it, but by supporting the players who complain about the simplification of the TES series and the loss of the spellmaker, you actually doing yourself a favor.
The more people complain about these things, the higher the chance that someone will listen, and take these wishes to heart. If we lay low, and be little, nice consumers the next thing we will see is the integration of quick time events, or some other BS.
So even if you don't NEED the spellmaker, supporting this notion or any other to increase the complexity of the future TES-games, you are supporting a game that could be more fun and has a higher replayability.

Just my 2 cents.

@FailedtoOpen

You are missing one thing: Shouts are hardwired, so you can't change them to your liking.
Potions are consumables which can be combined to have some strange effects, and you have to use up ingredients to brew them.
So while you are technically correct about the redundancy of the effects, the big point is: You have VERY limited control over them, and can't combine them in the way you might like.
That's the WHOLE point of the spellmaker: To give the player the freedom(within the confines of the magic system) to create spells with effects HE likes, in a combination HE wants.

The freedom and choices to do things your way in a game should be increased, not reduced.

Alchemy and shouts are no substitutes for spells. That is like saying a mage can still open a lock with a pick, so we should not lament the loss of "open" spells from Oblivion or the "lock" spells from Morrowind.



That is your opinion. If you honestly think variety is boring, I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on the spice of life. Many others feel the exact opposite.


We also had numerous spells that did different things. Things that are not possible in Skyrim. You can no longer open things with a spell. You have to use a pick. To many people picking a lock and opening it with a spell are very different experiences. It is an example of variety, not redundancy.

You can no longer "lock" doors with a spell so NPC's could not chase you through the door. That's completely removed.

You can no longer cancel your candlelight with a Dispel on Self because Dispel was removed from the game. If you want a return to darkness so you can sneak into the next room you have to wait for the spell timer to run out.

There are dozens of other examples of spells that are no longer there.

Because of graphics? Really? Proof? And, sure, it's all the consoles fault...

We had,

detect key/enchantment
dispel
water walking
levitation
open lock
lock
command spells
multiple summons
damage health, magic, fatgue
damage attributes (that is gone but why cant there be damage skills)
cure disease
charm
mark/recall
weakness spells
poison
feather
fortify spells
jump
slowfall
blind

Variety is not redundacy, having less is boring and watered down, less is less no matter how its twisted.

And that is by no means an exhaustive list. There were also spells for:

nighteye
bound armor
much more variety in bound weapons
bound shield
fire shield
frost shield
shock shield
absorb health/stamina/magcika/skill/attribute
drain health/stamina/magcika/skill/attribute
silence (to stop spellcasters)
chameleon
reflect spell
spell absorbtion
restore damaged attribute
disintigrate weapon/armor
cure poison
cure paralysis

The loss of variety in spells is staggering.

No its not an exhaustive list that was just a sample. Its staggering how many spells we have lost. Its mind numbing we now have one dimensional mages with so little content in the magic system. The absorb spells was great and nighteye was usefull in the darkest caves.

The spell I missed the most is night eye. I can't stand those light spells in Skyrim, I want my night eye back.

Yeah, my list is just a sample too. I edited it to add a few more, but it would take a while to sit down and catelog all of the spells that have been cut from the series since Morrowind. Some of them, like nighteye and absorb, were probably cut to make Khajiit and Vampires feel more special, and some of them like disintigrate weapon/armor were cut when they cut weapon/armor degradation. But that only explains a small percentage of the staggering loss in spells. Why can't my nightblade summon a bound shield or bound armor? Why can he no longer summon a bound dagger? Makes no sense.