[Marie Maillos]

To be fair I too feel bethesda flopped pretty badly with the lore vs game mechanics here.
(biggest one definitely being the stage 4 vampirism not leading to npcs attacking you).

Not even a centimeter behind it is the screwed up feeding system.

[Chris Johnston]

It may svck, but that is how it should be, and what they should have done is make a questline with the Volkihar that gave you a reward at the end that let you conceal your identity, that way people didn't attack you.

No because no wants to have to run through the story in one sitting. And that is what they would have to do if they chose vampire because they would not be doing anything else. Plus why should they put all there work into a game that I guarantee the majority would hate. Not being able to fully play the game as a vampire is a failed idea.

[Jamie Lee]

To be fair I too feel bethesda flopped pretty badly with the lore vs game mechanics here.
(biggest one definitely being the stage 4 vampirism not leading to npcs attacking you).

As for lore there are some things that I feel do work. For example Mist-form technically allows you to remain ethereal. By all rights you should be able to reach through ice with that.
As for why they didn't allow such a mechanic in game I feel its too complicated for the devs. The Elder scrolls historically have never really done a great job with swimming mechanics. The idea of creating an entirely new swimming system, passable-ice, and well as a feeding mechanic just to follow through with lore when many people probably won't even use it due to lack of relevant situations for its usage is a bit extreme.

No no you were on the right track.

All they need to do is take the resource for Mist form, allow it to be used ONLY when on frozen lakes, then delete the animation for bats and replace it with a brief animation upon activation that forces you into third person and shows your character sinking into the frozen ice itself while simultaneously making the character invisible and invulnerable to enemies. Then allow the player to move at an increased speed, but only while standing on a frozen lake; they get forced out the moment they hit land or water.

The hiccups? You wouldn't be able to reach up and pull people under the ice, but rather you just "teleport" behind them and away from them as you please for a surprise attack. A very reasonable, understandable compromise for gameplay.
Secondly, you wouldn't be able to move directly under your opponent like this; your shadow would actually bump into him. Again, not ideal, but not something players would refer to as ridiculous or immersion-breaking either. It's an understandable limitation of the programming.

[Elisabete Gaspar]

Alrighty. You guys still fighting over the thought that the new Volkihar Vampires are butchering the lore?

If so, think about this.. Immortal Bloods is written by a Cyrodiil, or 'Common', Vampire. He talks about the Volkihar, correct? Well, common sense tells me that he is most likely making up lies, and stories, about the Volkihar in the book.. As for his own kind, he might be telling the truth and yet, might not... It is rly simple, and highly common, thing he is doing... He is lying about the others and trying to make it so himself, and his kind, actually looks good and powerful.. Hm.. Where did I heard that before? Um.. The Government!

Therefore, Immortal Bloods cannot be totally true lore.. This means, we had no idea how the Volkihar Vampires are like until now.. When we finally saw them... And this also means, Beth isn't butchering the Volkihar Lore..Now, about the whole 'blending in' thing.. He could be lying and saying only the Cyrodiil Vampires have it.. Or he was true but over the years, other Vampires had adapted and also gained this ability.. So therefore, I don't see any lore being butchered here...

Any questions?

[nath]

No because no wants to have to run through the story in one sitting. And that is what they would have to do if they chose vampire because they would not be doing anything else. Plus why should they put all there work into a game that I guarantee the majority would hate. Not being able to fully play the game as a vampire is a failed idea.

There are ways to do it lore-friendly and be playable. They just didn't, but in the future maybe they can.

[Marquis deVille]

No because no wants to have to run through the story in one sitting. And that is what they would have to do if they chose vampire because they would not be doing anything else. Plus why should they put all there work into a game that I guarantee the majority would hate. Not being able to fully play the game as a vampire is a failed idea.

You can fully play the game if you have the ability to hide the fact that you're a vampire. It was a simple thing achieved by simple mods in Morrowind.

[Spooky Angel]

There are ways to do it lore-friendly and be playable. They just didn't, but in the future maybe they can.

That would be great, I just don't want a game where if I choose to be a vampire then I cant do anything else. Its one thing to be attacked at stage 4 I can deal with that. But every stage no thanks.

[Tom Flanagan]

Alrighty. You guys still fighting over the thought that the new Volkihar Vampires are butchering the lore?

If so, think about this.. Immortal Bloods is written by a Cyrodiil, or 'Common', Vampire. He talks about the Volkihar, correct? Well, common sense tells me that he is most likely making up lies, and stories, about the Volkihar in the book.. As for his own kind, he might be telling the truth and yet, might not... It is rly simple, and highly common, thing he is doing... He is lying about the others and trying to make it so himself, and his kind, actually looks good and powerful.. Hm.. Where did I heard that before? Um.. The Government!

Therefore, Immortal Bloods cannot be totally true lore.. This means, we had no idea how the Volkihar Vampires are like until now.. When we finally saw them... And this also means, Beth isn't butchering the Volkihar Lore..Now, about the whole 'blending in' thing.. He could be lying and saying only the Cyrodiil Vampires have it.. Or he was true but over the years, other Vampires had adapted and also gained this ability.. So therefore, I don't see any lore being butchered here...

Any questions?

They may not be butchering the lore, but they created some terrible vampires. The whole design for vampires in this game svcks, and Bethesda thinks VL form can make up for it.

By the way, Cyrodiil vampires are not "common" vampires. They're an entirely different strain of vampirism.

[Nadia Nad]

Oh as for the whole 'stage 4' nonsense.. I believe they should've made it so people will always attack you at any stage UNLESS you have something that is covering your face very well.. This will be basicly any Full Helmet.. This can also be the Vampire Hood and actually give a reason why Serana may wear one as well give the player a reason to get one as a Vampire.

[Kat Lehmann]

No no you were on the right track.

All they need to do is take the resource for Mist form, allow it to be used ONLY when on frozen lakes, then delete the animation for bats and replace it with a brief animation upon activation that forces you into third person and shows your character sinking into the frozen ice itself while simultaneously making the character invisible and invulnerable to enemies. Then allow the player to move at an increased speed, but only while standing on a frozen lake; they get forced out the moment they hit land or water.

The hiccups? You wouldn't be able to reach up and pull people under the ice, but rather you just "teleport" behind them and away from them as you please for a surprise attack. A very reasonable, understandable compromise for gameplay.
Secondly, you wouldn't be able to move directly under your opponent like this; your shadow would actually bump into him. Again, not ideal, but not something players would refer to as ridiculous or immersion-breaking either. It's an understandable limitation of the programming.

My point exactly. No matter what you do it won't be exact. Also I can fore-see a million possible glitches that would come up for the developers (people stuck under ice, people don't feed properly, people complaining about mist form being weak, collision issues etc etc etc).


Also guys... am I the only person that has run into Volkihar vampires before the dawnguard dlc even came out? i play a high level character and if I remember correctly Volkihar vampires ARE spawnable mobs in game look:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_%28Skyrim%29

There are multiple levels of them but they are all high level mobs.

Lvl 48 mob Volkihar vampire
Lvl 53 mob Master Volkihar Vampire
(And hard as bullocks to kill at master's difficulty)

[Alycia Leann grace]

They may not be butchering the lore, but they created some terrible vampires. The whole design for vampires in this game svcks, and Bethesda thinks VL form can make up for it.

I actually like Vampires now. Been playing one for awhile.. Only thing I disagree with is 'Stage Attacks'. Everything else makes sense to me.

[Danel]

Alrighty. You guys still fighting over the thought that the new Volkihar Vampires are butchering the lore?

If so, think about this.. Immortal Bloods is written by a Cyrodiil, or 'Common', Vampire. He talks about the Volkihar, correct? Well, common sense tells me that he is most likely making up lies, and stories, about the Volkihar in the book.. As for his own kind, he might be telling the truth and yet, might not... It is rly simple, and highly common, thing he is doing... He is lying about the others and trying to make it so himself, and his kind, actually looks good and powerful.. Hm.. Where did I heard that before? Um.. The Government!

Therefore, Immortal Bloods cannot be totally true lore.. This means, we had no idea how the Volkihar Vampires are like until now.. When we finally saw them... And this also means, Beth isn't butchering the Volkihar Lore..Now, about the whole 'blending in' thing.. He could be lying and saying only the Cyrodiil Vampires have it.. Or he was true but over the years, other Vampires had adapted and also gained this ability.. So therefore, I don't see any lore being butchered here...

Any questions?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/occam%27s%20razor.

While there's -technically- no flaws with this theory, are you seriously telling me THIS is how it went down in the dev room:

"Ok so next up we need to design the Volkihar. What established lore do we have on them Ken?"
"Well so far we've just produced one book, but we stated that they can freely move through ice, have frost resistance and magic, and tend to attack their prey suddenly from below frozen lakes."
"Alright then, we'll have to get to work on that. We'll have to develop ways to spawn and travel from ice, but the ice magic and resistances are easy enough."
"WAIT!!"
"Yes Todd?"
"What if we DIDN'T LISTEN TO OUR ESTABLISHED LORE AT ALL??"
"Uhhhh...why?"
"Because we'll say the author of that book was a liar. Or he never existed. Or the book was a figment of the Champion of Cyrodiil's imagination. People will love it."
"....Wouldn't it make more sense and be less deceiving for the public if we just followed the lore?"
"NO! Following the lore makes no sense at all! It makes much more sense to rewrite it constantly and keep our audience guessing, frustrated, unsure and confused, so much so that thousands of fans scream '[censored] this' and forever give up on their quest to learn the lore, deeming it a giant waste of time since we constantly rewrite it all.

They'll love it."
"Huh. Can't argue with that. Your logic is flawless."
"It'd also be logical to copy-paste the vampirism files from Oblivion into Skyrim. We're totally not doing it out of pure laziness. No, this is about artistic integrity and staying true to our lore!"
"God Todd, you're a genius! We'll get right on it."


Bull[censored]. They were just lazy. There's no excuse or story behind it. It's just developer laziness.

[Stephanie I]

Alrighty. You guys still fighting over the thought that the new Volkihar Vampires are butchering the lore?

If so, think about this.. Immortal Bloods is written by a Cyrodiil, or 'Common', Vampire. He talks about the Volkihar, correct? Well, common sense tells me that he is most likely making up lies, and stories, about the Volkihar in the book.. As for his own kind, he might be telling the truth and yet, might not... It is rly simple, and highly common, thing he is doing... He is lying about the others and trying to make it so himself, and his kind, actually looks good and powerful.. Hm.. Where did I heard that before? Um.. The Government!

Therefore, Immortal Bloods cannot be totally true lore.. This means, we had no idea how the Volkihar Vampires are like until now.. When we finally saw them... And this also means, Beth isn't butchering the Volkihar Lore..Now, about the whole 'blending in' thing.. He could be lying and saying only the Cyrodiil Vampires have it.. Or he was true but over the years, other Vampires had adapted and also gained this ability.. So therefore, I don't see any lore being butchered here...

Any questions?

Er volk vampires don't really involve themselves with human society the only volk vampire that does this is sybille and volk vampires don't "blend" like cyrodil vampires the blending people talk about is that cyrodil vampires look just like a human if they are fed. Volk vampires can walk around normally but most likely they would have to wear a hood or helmet or if the town really trusts them(like sybille).

edit:Well longknife volk vampires do have frost resitance so they got 1 thing right.

[chirsty aggas]

I actually like Vampires now. Been playing one for awhile.. Only thing I disagree with is 'Stage Attacks'. Everything else makes sense to me.

I've been playing one for awhile too. I can't believe you like the feeding system though, but I guess everyone has different tastes.

I have to disagree with everything else makes sense. The feeding system makes no sense.

[Emily Rose]

Alrighty. You guys still fighting over the thought that the new Volkihar Vampires are butchering the lore?

If so, think about this.. Immortal Bloods is written by a Cyrodiil, or 'Common', Vampire. He talks about the Volkihar, correct? Well, common sense tells me that he is most likely making up lies, and stories, about the Volkihar in the book.. As for his own kind, he might be telling the truth and yet, might not... It is rly simple, and highly common, thing he is doing... He is lying about the others and trying to make it so himself, and his kind, actually looks good and powerful.. Hm.. Where did I heard that before? Um.. The Government!

Therefore, Immortal Bloods cannot be totally true lore.. This means, we had no idea how the Volkihar Vampires are like until now.. When we finally saw them... And this also means, Beth isn't butchering the Volkihar Lore..Now, about the whole 'blending in' thing.. He could be lying and saying only the Cyrodiil Vampires have it.. Or he was true but over the years, other Vampires had adapted and also gained this ability.. So therefore, I don't see any lore being butchered here...

Any questions?

As far as I remember, we don't know who actually writes Immortal Blood. Interestingly, it doesn't make sense for Morvarth to have written it, or any Cyrodiilic vampire, for that matter. As someone already pointed out, you don't write and circulate a book detailing your supernatural ability to remain hidden throughout society, when your existence depends on your discrete ability to do so. Bragging about it, and then lying and saying that ONLY your clan can do it, is completely absurd, self-defeating, and counterproductive.

So, if we assume that the writer of Immortal Blood was, in fact, not a member of the Cyrodiilic clan, then we have to ask ourselves a few questions. How did they get the Cyrodiilic Vampires correct to the tee, ESPECIALLY when their powers and their very nature would make them the most obscure clan in Tamriel? How did they manage to do that, and then get another clan's (whose powers are surprisingly overt) completely wrong?

[Hussnein Amin]

Guys no one even referred to my point:
Volkihar vampires are high level spawnable mobs in game even without the dlc.
So technically doesn't that make them a different class of vampire from the Volkihar vampires in the dlc?

[Adriana Lenzo]

I've been playing one for awhile too. I can't believe you like the feeding system though, but I guess everyone has different tastes.

Well vampirism is a disease after all and drinking blood is like treating it hence why you look a lot more human I think volk vampires would get the bat face at stage 4 but bethesda did not add it hence why you get attacked at stage 4 since humans can see you for what you really are. Well this is just simple speculation on my part.

[ijohnnny]

Guys no one even referred to my point:
Volkihar vampires are high level spawnable mobs in game even without the dlc.
So technically doesn't that make them a different class of vampire from the Volkihar vampires in the dlc?

It does

[Stephy Beck]

They may not be butchering the lore, but they created some terrible vampires. The whole design for vampires in this game svcks, and Bethesda thinks VL form can make up for it.

By the way, Cyrodiil vampires are not "common" vampires. They're an entirely different strain of vampirism.

Well this is not the thread to "Complain" about how vampire's svck in skyrim, if thats what you want to discuss take it elsewhere please.

[LuBiE LoU]

So, if we assume that the writer of Immortal Blood was, in fact, not a member of the Cyrodiilic clan, then we have to ask ourselves a few questions. How did they get the Cyrodiilic Vampires correct to the tee, ESPECIALLY when their powers and their very nature would make them the most obscure clan in Tamriel? How did they manage to do that, and then get another clan's whose powers are surprisingly overt, completely wrong?

This.

The same argument can be applied to the "it's been 200 years. Things evolve, the vampire clans probably evolved" argument.
How convenient is it that literally NOTHING has supposedly "evolved" except the Skyrim vampire clan? I mean really....

Occam's Razor, people. Occam's Razor EVERYWHERE...

[Manuel rivera]

At least they had the common courtesy of placing Castle Volkihar in the middle of a frozen wasteland!

[brandon frier]

At least they had the common courtesy of placing Castle Volkihar in the middle of a frozen wasteland!

Yeah I agree it kinda shows that volk vampires don't really involve themselves with human affairs hell they don't even deal with the dawnguard until after their main quest to them its more like "Yeah these guys are getting kinda annoying take care of them will you?"

From the looks of it the volk vampires in the castle care more for the power plays amongst the court.

[Chica Cheve]

At least they had the common courtesy of placing Castle Volkihar in the middle of a frozen wasteland!

Within clear sight of Skyrim's most populated city.

[Chase McAbee]

Well vampirism is a disease after all and drinking blood is like treating it hence why you look a lot more human I think volk vampires would get the bat face at stage 4 but bethesda did not add it hence why you get attacked at stage 4 since humans can see you for what you really are. Well this is just simple speculation on my part.

But, the whole concept of feeding and losing powers and resistance goes against being a vampire. Vampires get stronger as they feed, not weaker. Bethesda has some things right like less impact from the sun when feeding, but everything else is backwards.

On the topic of lore, the Skyrim vampires seem behave EXACTLY like Cyrodiil vampires, not Volkihar vampires.

[Agnieszka Bak]

...

My theory is they had planned the idea in the first place or even was planning to make "Volkihar" a complete lie.. My best bet is the only reason why we even have Volkihar vampires is cause of the fanbase wanted them to be in Skyrim.. That could explain why we could only become a Cyrodiilic Vampire in Skyrim and how the vampires that were named 'Volkihar Vampire' were also being Cyrodiilic.. Cause their original plans was just to make Cyrodiilic, or normal, vampires in Skyrim then the fanbase said something so they decided to add a high level vampire named after the Volkihar... Now, cause of more complainers, they finally added lore and actually decided to say "Hey! Why don't we actually make some sort of special Volkihar Vampire Base and allow the player to join them and maybe get something special, other then common stuff? You know, like we did with Quarra, Berne, and Aundae clans."

That is my theory and prolly is the one that makes sense.. Yes, Beth was lazy at one point but they proved that they are willing to actually do something and that what they did. They added the Volkihar Vampire Lord and allowed the players to join them and become one, which is what we needed to gain official lore about them.