Really? I don't want to go into spoilers but the DB quest is reflected in the game? Becoming the head of any faction actually? Or either side of the civil war? Please tell me one quest that forces you to lose something or turns a faction against you or even an NPC against you. There are no consequences to any of your actions in this game. You can, literally, do every quest in the game in one playthrough except the Civil War which doesn't matter because both sides play out exactly the same.

Just the absurdity of a month old forum member attacking people he considers undesirable forum neophytes.

Just the absurdity of a month old forum member attacking people he considers undesirable forum neophytes.

I didn't see him say anything about neophytes, did I miss that part?

All I saw him saying is that there is a disproportionate number of annoying, baseless, complaint threads.

It annoys the the hell out of me that it's hard to find threads about DiD and interesting threads about the game generally (such as discussing the factions, lore, or politics) because the forum is so full of "I HATE SKYRIM" threads. Apparently 90% of the people who feel 'betrayed' by Skyrim have nothing better to do with their time but clutter up the forum with repetitive juvenile nonsense. There's valid complaints, then there's most of what you see on here..not the same at all!

I too will be happy when these people are gone, as I actually like to read stuff from the uber-nerds ( and I mean that in a good way) who post threads about DiD games, talks about lore and stuff actually having to do with the game.

Here's the thing about Skyrim -

Are the complaints made valid complaints of flaws that exist in game? 99% of the time, YES.

(I don't agree with the "RPG elements" arguments, because I believe that "RPG elements" mean things in game that allow you to build and develop a character - something Skyrim does better than any game I've ever played - not just "attributes", "numbers" and "dice rolls")

However, most of the complaints that are being made either 1.) don't look at anything else in the game, only specifically what is being complained about or 2.) are so minor and mundane that it's obvious the poster is grasping at straws to find something to complain about.

As for #1, people complain about the removed skills, but they don't look at the fact that we also got -ADDED- skills, and the fact that virtually every skill we did get became deeper and more customizable than we've ever had before. They just say "OH NOEZ THERE'S NO MYSTICISM, ATHLETICS OR TEH ACROBATICS" even though Mysticism IS in the game, it was merged with Alteration, and while Athletics and Acrobatics were removed, those skills were replaced with Pickpocket and Enchanting, which offer more depth and more gameplay than "running" or "jumping". They just see that Armorer is gone, and fail to understand that it was replaced with a more involved, more in depth crafting system.

As for #2, people are grasping so hard for straws that they are either complaining about the petty flaws that the game does have (I.E.: NPC's don't -always- react to your accomplishments - even though they DO acknowledge your accomplishments and do so quite often, the complainers only focus on the occasional time that the NPC's -don't-), or they make claims that are just flat out false (I.E.: the Main Quest "forces" you to join guilds that you don't want to - my character who is a law abiding warrior and wouldn't have anything to do with the Thieves Guild, I never had to join the Thieves Guild with him, and no, I didn't have to take some unknown workaround to go directly into the Ratways to avoid it. I talked to the guy, did that part of the Main Quest, and somehow, was never a part of the Thieves Guild.)

And that's what I hate about the complaints. People are either resorting to the most petty of complaints about the game, or they are flat out making false claims about the game, and -THAT- is what they are using to criticize the game and Bethesda on. The most petty of details, or flat out untrue claims.

When the complaints are about the UI, an occasional bad NPC acknowledgment of the player's character, or the fact that there are less numbers, or flat out making things up like somehow saying Morrowind's directions were somehow magically more complex than Skyrim's quest arrows, then I take that as nothing more than entitled whining.

I can at least understand when people make claims about things like Spellmaking being removed, but even then it turns into nothing more then entitled whining when the arguments turn into nothing more than emotional sensationalism by claiming that Spellmaking was the single most important thing to the Elder Scrolls series, and magic simply cannot exist without it.

lol I ment it as more of a slap since I couldn't believe my own wife would charge me money for basic essentials, and I slapped her but then she wanted me dead so I had no choice!

Everyone who is still enjoying Skyrim, their voices go unheard, well because they are too immersed in playing the game.

What you fail to understand is that there are players who might actually want to do exactly this. Create one charecter and complete everything with it. I think this is boring as hell but everyone has the right to enjoy their game as they see fit.

If you can roleplay at least a little bit then you complete the quests that fits your character and ignore the rest.

Why should those players be penalized for your lack of roleplaying ability?

Oy, the tired old roleplaying argument. I've DMed a P&P D&D game (2nd addition with some house rules) once a month for about ten years now. As the DM it is my job to have the world react to my PCs actions and come up with suitable consequences. When it comes to CRPGs the game is the DM. It's the developers jobs to make a world where MY actions have actual consequences.

In Skyrim, my first character was a murderous thug. My second, that I have since given up on, was a virtuous Nord who wouldn't steal or murder. The game doesn't register either. I could (and did) kill someone's daughter in front of them, pay a fine, walk up to her mother and buy alchemy supplies off her like nothing happened. Try that in NV and see what happens. Your saying I should somehow pretend NPCs talk and act in ways they don't? That's not RPing. That's just ludicrous.

Oy, the tired old roleplaying argument. I've DMed a P&P D&D game (2nd addition with some house rules) once a month for about ten years now. As the DM it is my job to have the world react to my PCs actions and come up with suitable consequences. When it comes to CRPGs the game is the DM. It's the developers jobs to make a world where MY actions have actual consequences.

In Skyrim, my first character was a murderous thug. My second, that I have since given up on, was a virtuous Nord who wouldn't steal or murder. The game doesn't register either. I could (and did) kill someone's daughter in front of them, pay a fine, walk up to her mother and buy alchemy supplies off her like nothing happened. Try that in NV and see what happens. Your saying I should somehow pretend NPCs talk and act in ways they don't? That's not RPing. That's just ludicrous.

The OP has every right to make this thread; If some of you disagree with what he's posting, at least try to combat his points coherently, insulting him will not accomplish anything. It's funny how you call OP (and his kin) whinners when you guys are much worse, you mention that there's one of these threads everyday, shouldn't that tell you that this is a legitimate concern? Even so, if you dislike this thread, just ignore it.

I think I am done reading this thread. OP please respond to me and tell me what you think about that. I am dieing to know.

Just because an argument is repeated DOES NOT mean it's legit. That's not even close to true.

Besides...no one is saying his points aren't legit. I'm saying they are repeated over and over and there is no point in constantly doing so.

People acknowledge my affiliation and rank in the College of Winterhold all the time. I have had plenty of people refer to me as the Arch-Mage of the college.

I wouldn't mind a little bit of "you can only join our guild if you meet our requirements" when it comes to guilds, but the fact of the matter is, if you're roleplaying, that shouldn't be a problem anyways. My law abiding Necro-Warrior has no desire to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood, and thus, I never joined those guilds with him. Why that is so hard of a concept for people to understand is beyond me, but just because you -can- do something doesn't mean you -have to-.

As far as a quest or a choice that you make that turns others against you:

1.) Paarthurnax. Either choice you make, you are turning a faction against you.
Nothing comes of this choice at all. You suffer no consequences either way.
2.) Cicero v. (The Redguard man sitting on his porch - I forget his name)
Nothing comes of this choice at all either.
3.) Dark Brotherhood "initiation" quest.
At least this does lock you out of a faction
4. Saadia v. The Alik'r quest.
Choice has absolutely no consequence.

Dude using multiple alts to crowd out a thread is lame. Seriously.

If an arguement is repeated ad naseam by different "forumers" all the time, I'd say it's legit. OP may have just been to the forums for the first time and just wants to release his opinion. You know what else I find daily in this forum, Skyrim appreciation threads (not that the game does't deserve praise), you'll find that people don't go on those forums complaining about how "they are repeated over and over and there is no point in constantly doing so".

So you're complaining because the game, a computer program, a series of "ifs" and "thens", can not react the same way as a human being? You've been watching too much sci-fi movies. We are decades away from that.