A Hack'n'slash RPG is a true RPG, just a different style of RPG. When it comes to what actually makes a game an RPG, there is no difference between Ultima 7 and hack 'n' slashes like Wizardry and Baldur's Gate.

I have to LOL at this topic, Skyrim is clearly an RPG.

Okay let's assume bethesda is the "Game master" since you have already confessed that daggerfall and other titles were roleplaying games. Dictionary.com states "a game in which participants adopt the roles of imaginary characters in an adventure under the direction of a Game Master." Sounds to me like it is an RPG regardless of how much more action it has than previous titles. Why would you complain about making the combat more fun? Your priorities need prioritizing and I would make that a first priority.

RPG is just a general classification that defines a type of game where you play the role of a character. An RPG can be as simple or complex as a designer wants it to be. It doesn't have to follow all the tenants of YOUR favourite game.

What type of RPG is Skyrim? It's a TES style RPG. Take it or leave it. If you don't like it, don't play it... but it seems like you're looking for assurance by coming here and posting, which means you're not very sure about your own opinion on the matter. I can assure you that you are wrong. It's an RPG, just not your preferred kind.

Its quite obviously an RPG. Not every RPG is going to have dice rolls and definitive classes like a tabletop game.

It's an action game with RPG elements. Player skill trumps avatar skill. Exactly the opposite of what I expect from an RPG.

The games HAVE gotten simpler as time goes by. Fewer skills, and now, even attributes are gone. The UI has gone from useful in morrowind, to marginal in Oblivion, to basically useless in Skyrim. This is a console port of a once proud PC game series. It's more about being 'pretty' and making the company money.

If you think you know how to build or make a RPG game a lot better then this one, do it yourself.

...okay RPG's are a very widely defined genre. What Skyrim is not is an RPG in the sense the OP wants it to be. It just has many of its elements hidden or heavily watered down. Still and RPG though and well within its definition.

Here is an okay http://www.rpgfan.com/editorials/old/1998/0007.html giving some insight into what an RPG is.
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To some extent I don't think game developers know what a RPG is. The RPG genre is going threw one hell of a identity crisis over the past few years. What exactly is a RPG nowadays? Every game including FPS have character's, stats, crafting..pretty much all the things that use to separate RPG's from the pack.

UI is crap I'll give you that, but attribute management was never the right direction for a PC RPG. It worked for table top and the simplistic story driven console RPGs of old, but the best PC RPGs, at least the ones I loved and grew up with sought to create a virtual reality, not a world of menus and numbers... but to each his or her own... they're all still RPGs by the pure definition.

short and sweet-- get the [censored] out dude. dont complain here.

This is by far the most absurd thread I've seen on this forum. How is this more a overused action mechanic than an rpg mechanic? I'd be embarassed if I said that. Think next time, champ. K cya!

double post

The following are my thoughts I posted in another thread. I am not addressing anyone in this thread when referring to "you" and that's just a leftover from the fact that my posts were responses, so please ignore those:

They are not these redundant "numbers and statistics" as you refer to them, they are actual gameplay mechanics which allow for a more meticulous fleshing out of your character. The gameworld responding to your status is not some inexplicably redundant number or statistic. The actual factions with actual substance making them feel like factions are not inexplicably redundant numbers or statistics. The scope of the world, the maturity with which it presents itself, the seasons, the holidays, the plot choices, the reputation of your character with a certain class or faction or region which in turn affect the opportunities and respect they present to you... these things are not inexplicably redundant numbers. The subtle and detailed, yet ignorable, backstory shaped by your choices within the character creation, the complexity and choices presented in the character creation system which allows for so many possibilities of character, the politics and faction conflicts and alliances... these are meaningful. One thing Daggerfall doesn't do is have a whole lot of wildlife for being a hunter, but that alone does not make role-playing in Skyrim anywhere near as valid as in Daggerfall. What can you do in Skyrim, just kill bears and sell their pelts? Wow, what role-playing. [/sarcasm]

No, Skyrim offers no recognition, no reaction, and no tools to do much beyond decide you want to wear heavy armor and swing swords. The factions are pure garbage... irrelevant, pointless garbage Bethesda clearly tossed in at the last second. If you're content with simply hunting down wild things and selling their hides in Skyrim, so be it, but in regards to nearly anything else... to trying to role-play a scholar, a knight of the scarab, a noble pawn, an assassin, a militant warrior-priest of Akatosh, friend of the necromancers, subject of the royal court of Sentinel, etc., Skyrim cannot compete. These "numbers and statistics" you've labeled as pointless with absolutely no explanation other than stating the obvious of being able to kill wild things and sell their hides in Skyrim make the world more believable, play on variations of character design, and make any specific playstyle more palpable, more tangible, and more respected or reviled within the gameworld. Skyrim is shallow. I'm not sure who thought this trend of arithmophobia provided an adequate job of striking down the old and promoting the new or was a valid response, but it's not.

Cut out the numbers and statistics which provide the necessary backbone for reputation... Skyrim has no reputation, and that's a good thing? Cut out the numbers and statistics forming the backbone of a holiday and season system... Skyrim has none and nothing to replace it, and that's a good thing? Cut out the numbers and statistics of factions and prerequisites/quota for position within that faction... we have barely any factions and those we do have are incredibly shallow and tacked on in Skyrim, and that's a good thing? Cut out the numbers and statistics behind the system of spell customization... Skyrim has no spell customization, and that's a good thing? You've not explained anything and your justification for... shallowness is inept at conveying any proper justification at all. In essence, you've said nothing other than "numbers bad, Skyrim has fewer, Skyrim good". You say this makes Skyrim feel more real, inexplicably, but fail to realize at just how "real", or rather unreal, Skyrim really is because it has no holidays, no reputations, no factions, no scope/size, no political machinations, little depth and customization to make one feel a part of the gameworld, etc. The only things more "real" about Skyrim are the graphics and the combat. Without the numbers and statistics apologists so strongly and unjustifiably seem to fear, there would be nothing to separate TES from another sandbox game such as Red Dead Redemption or Just Cause 2... perhaps code for the game itself wouldn't exist. You need "numbers and statistics" in an RPG.

Well, I think Skyrim is an RPG, just not much of one when compared to its predecessors. It's really not that narrow of a definition I have. I love JRPGs (Dragon Quest VIII is my favorite) , I love Baldur's Gate, I love TES. Within the context of TES series, Skyrim is exceedingly simple and lacking many of the role-playing mechanics of its predecessors. I do consider it an RPG, just a very lacking, very shallow one. JRPGs get away with what they do because they often, as is expected of the sub-genre, have brilliant storytelling and characterization. Baldur's Gate and KotOR get off on the same line, but sacrifice a bit of story for a bit more choice. TES has traditionally sacrificed nearly all characterization and brilliant storytelling for freedom and choice, yet I feel Skyrim is severely lacking both. As you mentioned, the questline stories are quite weak. At the same time, there also isn't much actually going on with factions, their influence, and any incentive to actually join them. This is the problem I find. My definition of an RPG of some sort involves some form of character progression, be it via story, characterization, or customization with progressing stats being a given below those three. Skyrim has basic stat progression and creation tools, so yes, one can choose their race and choose what type of "class", if you will, they wish to be and so I consider it an RPG, but the RPG mechanics practically end right there.

Skyrim lacks any meaningful characterization progression, it lacks story, it lacks worldly progression, and it lacks much of the customization aspect. The customization aspect, particularly, was the saving grace done so well by, say, Daggerfall that propels it to the forefront of a good WRPG, in my opinion. Skyrim... has a lot of dungeon-diving and simplistic progression mechanics, but very little substance or meaning to its "factions" (not sure how an incredibly short, poorly explained questline constitutes a faction), very little to its overarching plot, very little quest choice, little customization beyond the basic skill/perk choosing and progression mechanics (basically, Skyrim's progression mechanics are no more advanced than Dead Island's perk-based system and that's not a whole lot of depth), and a generally lacking feeling. It lacks choice and consequence and it lacks progression or realization of the world and its inhabitants to your actions. It's an RPG, but seeing as it doesn't really do much in excelling in actual RPG mechanics, it's a very bare one at that. Basically, no matter what you do in Skyrim, nobody and nothing around you will take notice and nothing changes other than a new dragon shout to use, a shiny new sword, and a little more gold in your pocket. Bethesda have officially reverted to the simplistic-level RPG mechanics of TES I: Arena and that's what the series' growth and then fall as an RPG series over the course of 17 years has left us... back at little more than a hack-and-slash dungeon crawler with RPG progression. Of course, other aspects of Skyrim are far improved over those of Arena, but as an RPG, Skyrim is shockingly quite lacking. It certainly isn't the "ultimate open-ended fantasy RPG" as described by a certain Bethesda employee. At this point, all Bethesda needs to do is cut out the perks and finish merging the armor pieces and voila, TES VI is just a sandbox dungeon crawler.

just to play devils advocate pokemon is a RPG, this game seems to be considered a RPG to you because it takes place in a pre gunpowder setting that or because of it's similarity to D&D....

taking all that in i've come to a conclusion...

http://http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T011BxYdw4Y/Tg3AVbf0OJI/AAAAAAAAA0w/sRaY8BKG4dI/s1600/chewie-Chewbacca1.jpg
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!


In short Rpgs can only be so complex before everything becomes too much to handle and turns into everquest. while yes it would be awesome to do things like enchant every little rivet and plate on my armor with fortify destruction, conjuration, enchanting, illusion, restoration, and alteration and play as the half daedric half ayleid son of umaril the unfeathered and Nocturnal Heir to the throne of Cyrodiil, and have a army of daedric seducers wielding daedric crescents and wearing daedric bikini armor

where was i going with this...

oh yeah

Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

[SCENE]

Very Well put agree totally you obviously put some thought into this

RPGs have always had a fair amount of action,

I feel as though there are enough RPG elements to consider the game an RPG.

The question is, with very lacking character development, progression, and dialogue choices, can it be considered a good RPG? Not really. It may be good as a game (and some may argue that's all that matters) but it's pretty poor as an RPG.

Correction: it is not a traditional RPG, because it strays from the stat guidelines made popular by Dungeons & Dragons.

It is still very much an RPG, just of the kind that PC-only gamers are not familiar with, thus provoking reactions of hatred and fear.

EDIT:

Very good post. Myself, I was rather disappointed to find out that no matter the dialog option I pick, I end up with the same result in the end. Sure, the dialog the NPC provides is slightly different, but the end result is the same. It's also a shame that characters who become your followers, who join the Blades, who become your subjects when you become the leader of the Companions/Brotherhood/College/Thieves or who become your spouse don't change much at all in their interactions. (If you refer to the player character, that is rather hard to develop with a "silent" protagonist who is supposed to prettymuch be you in the game world. Of course, s/he's only not silent when grunting in pain or Shouting.)

Skyrim is a Make Your Own Adventure game. Like them books of old. (and like Kolb and the Dragon in Skyrim, or that terminal in the comic book building in Fallout 3).
Just a lot bigger.

However RPG sounds better than MYOAG.

Make your own adventure game sounds like something you'd buy for your 8 year old niece.

which is what i cant understand, it's like they are angry about stuff they could find mods for.

Very well said.

Fixed!

There was just too much cutting for me. Mods FTW.

"A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

We do that in Skyrim, therefore its a roleplaying game.
Your argument has more to do with Skyrim being less like its predecessors.