I can't stress enough how disappointed I am with Vamps in this game. They didn't even follow the lore from "Immortal Blood", which, you know, the lore is kinda the foundation for The Elder Scrolls.....

Vampirism in Oblivion is true to the lore on the vamps of Cyrodill. If they continue to feed, they can blend into society undetected. Vampires grow stronger by NOT drinking blood!? ARE YOU SERIOUS!? I personally didn't like the way vamps in Oblivion were handled, but fine, lore says thats how Cyrodill Vamps are, I'll cut them some slack. But then to describe the Volkihar Vampire Clan of Skyrim and their abilities (in detail), then turn around and not only do the EXACT same thing in Skyrim as they did in Oblivion, but also blatantly ignore the lore (which they created). I was very disappointed as a fan. In my opinion, they dropped the ball in Skyrim with vamps. There are VERY FEW people who play this game as a vamp and enjoy it. Why go through all the trouble of creating vampire lore and putting them in the game for people if vamps aren't even fun to play as. They need to do something with vamps in this game, the vampire lord would be a good start.

The fans who wanted vampire clans, let alone the people who wanted vamps completely redone after Oblivion (like myself), where COMPLETELY IGNORED.

OP, to answer your question, Vampire Lord and Werebear? YES! YES! YES!

Werebears and Vamp fixes? Yes, please.

I know that if the vampires were fixed to actually kill people when they fed on them, I would immediately begin playing vampires again.

Would make it feel more like you are a hunter of the night and less like you are a creeper parasite.

I am rather neutral on the whole vampire lord business.

Werebears are just fun! You saw how he plowed through a group of soldiers in the video. So satisfying!

Well reminding people of twilight is not funny and not a joke....jokes are funny, repetitiveness is not so no there is no point to it because it annoys people.
and the decade has not been that bad, daybreakers, 30 days of night, fright night were all good, the latter which i am surprised of because its a remake.

what i meant by dracula is that everytime vampires are mentioned or seen on video, a troll will bring up twilight rather than the other classic vampires, it doesn't matter if that person was bringing it up because likes it, hates it or is making fun of it, its all annoying full stop because it repeated over and over.

so why doesn't anyone bring up dracula vampires, near dark vampires, lost boys vampires, fright night vampires? because they are purposefully trying to piss people off, not make them laugh.

besides this thread is not here for jokes and satire...if that is what you call that comment.

its about the werebear and the vampire lord and if people would like to see them implemented and how they would function in skyrim.

The quarra were most violent thats why but even some vampires despite their bloodlust could be civil and nice. whether its an act or just them is anyone's guess but becoming a vampire doesn't make one automatically evil.

by civilised i mean, able to talk without threats, not always hostile and may have some politeness. if evil then they would be affably evil.
sybille stentor is more or less civilised and so is alva until you do the quest but even then there is a chance she will remain non-hostile.


I agree 100% but what makes it even worse is that the bonuses were gone with only two crappy ones to replace them, illusion bonuses and a sneak one. gee that is very useful to both the average player and the warrior type player. i can stealth when the situation demands it but i am more of a blood knight than a stealthy type and so are a lot of other players.

I never said evil. I don't believe any vampires in the games are evil. Being barbaric and "evil" are two completely different things. I speak mostly of feeding habits. Whereas a vampire of the Order prefer to seduce their victims and nibble on their necks while they sleep, the Volkihar just freeze people and pull them under the ice. They might walk and talk civilized, but they should feed like any blood-thirst creature.

I always imagined the Volkihar to be like the vampires from "Thirty Days of Night."

The word "Nosferatu" is actually mentioned in Oblivion. If you read Jakben Earl of Imbel's journal, he calls himself Nosferatu. Though he looks like a normal guy compared to the hideous looking old creature.

I guess there are various stages that depends on the vampire. The Order clan is much like te Berne, as you said. Yet some are like the Aundae when using magic powers, such as "Embrace of Shadows" and "Reign of Terror". And I am willing to bet if they starved themselves for more than a week they wouldn't care about being subtle. Of course, it depends on the vampire and their willpower.

Lord Lovidicus for example, was an angry guy. Threatened to rip out a child from his lover's wombs and bleed her dry. He was also pretty damn crazy when he wrote the last pages of his diary. Decades without blood caused him to go nearly insane and with abandon. While Rona hassildor refused to feed and slipped into a coma. Both did not have blood, through one went mad while the other just went comatose.

Through it is possible he snacked on a few rats when he was imprisoned.

I think Lycans, Vampires and Werebear should all have Perk trees imo

I never said you said evil, that was me describing how even an evil being can be polite and civil, its called affably evil.

As for feeding methods, its a preference not something necessaries ingrained but possible.

By civilised i meant conversations etc, feeding is different matter.

Something also occurred to me, Everyone was getting hung up on the volkihar being able to blend in even me, but i just read both immortal blood again and cyrodiil vampyrum order and it does not say that out of ALL vampires the order can only blend in but the cyrodill tribe was only one in cyrodiil that could which is why is ousted the other tribes.

This is from the immortal blood from the uesp. you might need to highlight it.

""Now, tell me," he said. "Of the vampires of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil."

I told him what I could. There was but one tribe in Cyrodiil, a powerful clan who had ousted all other competitors, much like the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial themselves had done. Their true name was unknown, lost in history, but they were experts at concealment. If they kept themselves well-fed, they were indistinguishable from living persons. They were cultured, more civilized than the vampires of the provinces, preferring to feed on victims while they were asleep, unaware."

I would love both of these ideas, only change some of the concepts. For one, I think there needs to be a much greater faction system with the werewolves, werebear, and vampires. Throw in the Silverhand, and you have 4 factions added to the game, fleshed out with quests and radiant story. That just made the game even larger, and fits in rather well with the game. There are so many unused areas within Skyrim that it's totally possible to have these factions spread out over a large area, even outside of Skyrim itself within the new DLC lands (that I hope are added in).

I think the Silverhand needs a much larger role than just harassing the Companions. We need some sort of wild werewolves, maybe some sort of clan's or groups. I just think this aspect ought to be fleshed out and in some places added in. I love having my Dunmer become a Werewolf, I'd also want something in the game that has random encounters of the silver hand hunting him, or another group of werewolves to interact with. Something needs added in, which I really hope is being worked on.

That Dice show really was a nice thing to see, I just really hope that the PS3 and Xbox 360 gamers are not left out of the loop with all these nice ideas and concepts. Seasonal weather effects is something I'd like to see, and not just in a couple places within the province, but all over the place. The system makes sense for now, but it should be expanded on for sure. I'd also like weather to play a role in affecting the character. Trapped in a blizzard too long and you're going to get cold damage and what not, making frost / elemental gear for making those treks even more important. I'd like a system that requires you to eat/sleep/drink on a regular basis, but not forced on the gamer, yes a kind of hardcoe mode (again, not forced on gamers).

The canvas looks amazing right now as is, but lets get more DaVinci in there. The game needs more, not just in DLC.

Perk tree for Vampires and Were-beast should definitely be considered, it would potentially make me use beast form a lot more often for sure, depending on well it's done.

The silver hand were not actually good guys or even righteous religious types. They were bandits who enjoyed hunting werewolves and they attack anyone on sight regardless if they are human or not.

The vigil of stendarr however would make a decent faction which should give the player holy armour and spells greater than current ones to encourage players to remain human.

Eh, vampires are evil? Then lions or any other carnivorous animal must be evil because they kill to survive.

Anyways, well, we would believe others could blend in too, but reread the Manifesto and it explains how they can blend in and that it's a unique trait.

" To patron http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile, beacon oer our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

So they are unique among all other vampires. And as you said, they took over Cyrodiil in the Third Era by ousting all other competitors. And this particular quote makes me think their creation preceded their arrival to Cyrodiil. Either they invaded Cyrodiil and took over, or they were there, but were fighting in a hidden war against the vampire clans. Since it is the Fourth Era, it is plausible and likely they ventured to Skyrim to take over and fight against the Volkihar. It could explain Movarth's presence there. That or he could of just had the need to take over Morthal.

"By the virtue of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imperial structure and bureaucracy, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Cyrodiil has become our stronghold in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Third_Era, and we suffer no savage rivals within our boundries ."

The silver hand were not actually good guys or even righteous religious types. They were bandits who enjoyed hunting werewolves and they attack anyone on sight regardless if they are human or not.

The vigil of stendarr however would make a decent faction which should give the player holy armour and spells greater than current ones to encourage players to remain human.

Silver Hand are the bad guys. They are evil. Even Farkas said it. "Bad people who don't like werewolves."

The Vigilants of Stendarr are evil and hypocrites. They work for the god of mercy, yet they don't bestow the same trait to their victims? And they kill because their point of view is skewed. Just because they are at the bottom of the food chain, they try to exterminate the afflicted.

You misunderstood me again, i never said vampires were evil. I said even evil can be polite.

The whole clavicus vile thing only explains their diminished bloodlust and social status and the ability to remain hidden alongside mankind. its possible other clans could but not permanently, since their ability to blend in could be a "glamour" which would be good for the volkihar, have vampire lord minus wings as their true form and have a spell to appear human for say 8 hours and if the ability is not toggled off after that then their stage in vampirism changes and they became hungry.

I will never believe that the vampires in skyrim are the order because of the eye colour and appearance, powers and weaknesses. as for embrace of the shadows...maybe a lot of vampires have these.
the main error is movarth but i did theorise that before being attacked by the priest, he may have been infected by a volkihar since all it takes is a scratch or bite.

Oh, okay. It was sort of implied by what you said. My mistake.

Well, with social status and ability to blend in goes with their masquerade as mortals. It is parallel to "Immortal Blood.", where they need to feed to remain healthy looking and less vampire-like. Of course, Volkihar could "glamour"(True blood?) their victims and make them forget. That is much more likely than them having the same feeding habits and abilities as the Order.

We are at odds then, because I refuse to believe these crazy Volkihar can walk around in daylight and blend in as Cyrodiilic vampires do. Let alone walk around in palace courts and city taverns acting as humans, when the majority of the vampire race is shunned. And in Morrowind, if you ask about vampires, the majority of the populace will say they are horrible creatures and such and such, but one NPC said vampires could not blend in and that they would be spotted for what they are. Then a simple rumor foreshadows the existance of vampires that can blend in.

"Imperial culture regards blood vampires as destructive monsters to be hunted and destroyed. However, romantic notions of noble, virtuous vampires persist in Imperial traditions, and vampires are thought to pass unrecognized in the Mages Guild and the Imperial aristocracy."-Savant notes on Vvardenfell.

I don't think apperance has to do anything at all. http://www.tamriel.fr/images/oblivion/solution_bottesdejaktalonleger_1.jpg had no wrinkles, all he had was red eyes and a pale face. And werewolves look different compared to Morrowind and Oblivion, so that plays part in game design as well. The races look much different than previous games. And the people hated the fact that their characters had wrinkles after contracting vampirism. And even the female characters looked like males.

As for powers and weakness, it's been two centuries. Who knows, they could of evolved to a different strain by then. It's either a new type of "Order" vampire or a new vampire clan. It's only up to Bethesda to inform us and give us a good explanation.

Movarth is a good vampire hunter. He's hunted all kinds of vampires in different provinces. It's unlikely that he would forget to drink a cure disease potion, but t's possible. Now if he was infected with the Volkihar strain, don't you think the priest would of killed him then and their? After all, Cyrodiilic vampires have a prejudice against other vampires.

Immortal Blood says they ousted all other competitors. Manifesto Vampyrum shows they are completely dominant and very hateful towards "barbaric" clans of the provinces. Even the "enlightened" vampires they consider a threat to be destroyed and wiped out. And Janus Hassildor backs this up by claiming other vampires enroached in his territory and that they are like base animals that need to be eliminated. Sybille has a similar quest where she sends you out to kill a group of vampires in Pinemoon cave because they attack the populace and they are "uncivilized" and "vile".

The order does not get weakened by the sun so its not them and its said in game under their health bar that they are the volkihar.

"Imperial culture regards blood vampires as destructive monsters to be hunted and destroyed. However, romantic notions of noble, virtuous vampires persist in Imperial traditions, and vampires are thought to pass unrecognized in the Mages Guild and the Imperial aristocracy."-Savant notes on Vvardenfell."


Yep, you just explained how its possible that some vampires that are not the order can blend in and that sentence fits sybille stentor's position perfectly.

Vampire faces were bugged so that doesn't count and werewolves were not in oblivion.

Movarth may not have known he got scratched, adrenaline can do a lot to a person and the priest might not have known. I said movarth might have been infected not that he was fully turned. Its true that some people don't realise they have turned.


No....Babette is still the same type of vampire she was 300 years ago and so was vicente. neither of them evolved.

Again it just excuses because people can't accept the same vampire game mechanic. Hell i don't but i don't make excuses, it was simply down to bethesda.


As for the glamour part, i meant disguise i.e appearances changes to match your former human form except the eyes and teeth.

So? vampire NPC's in Oblivion did not match their clan. Janus sends you out to kill Bloodcrust cavern vampires which have the same ablities as Cyrodiilic vampires. Bethesda just got lazy. And how does the quote explain other vampires can blend in? Imperial aristocracy is related much to Cyrodiil.

Because the imperials occupy the west of skyrim and the capital hold which has a vampire that blends in and is a mage.

yes they are lazy, that is why volkihar are similar to cryodiil types.

but in terms of random vampires found in caves in oblivon, its specualted they have gone insane with hunger or were just bandits before being turned. If a noble became a vampire then he will remain a noble but if a bandit became a vampire....

Also it was the organization that was all political etc, most vampires in the game are strays, they share the bloodline but are not in the clan.
this happens in Morrowind as well.

Yes, but most Imperials in the highest echelon in Morrowind hail from Cyrodiil. Thus it makes it possible for Cyrodiili vampires to work in Morrowind, though they do not appear ingame.

Or the Cyrodiilic are similar to the Volkihar?

Or regular fodder for an PC to go in and kill.

I meant that vampires that share the same bloodline can be factionless and thus are attacked by their bloodline clan. you encounter some in tombs in morrowind

The volkihar are supposed to be cave dwelling but since they were once humans then obviously they live anyway they choose.

As for the cyrodiils, again i say its either insanity from lack of blood or because the majority of vampires were bandits and adventures that got bit or scratched.

I can't believe Werewolf&Vampire and Nero Mort are still arguing over the vampires in Skyrim, can you not except that the vampires in Skyrim could have made the same pact to be able to compete with the Order. The Order isn't the only group that can blend in, I thought, because in the Manifesto Cyrodiil Vampyrum they mention that the vampires of High Rock, "those such as Glenmoril Wyrd, who live within the walls of Breton cities," to me this means the have some way of blending into society. So to me it seems entirely possible that the Volkihar found a way to do it too.

What the hell happened to my last post? It wasn't like that when I finished typing it.

I'd really like to see werewolves and vampires fleshed out. vampire lords tho would be kickassss. like you start out as a normal vampire, but as you feed your progress your level of vampire-ness? then you begin to control your power more and more and are able to transform into a vampire lord whenever you see fit.

Well if they do put werebears in and i hope they do, i hope forced transformations once a month can be implemented, it will make players feel like a proper lycanthrope then.

add two enemy factions for them.
Silver hand.
Vigils of stendarr.

If they implement the vampire lord, they should add the old physical bonuses like all the previous vampires had but powers very unique to this tribe such frost magick either costing less or dealing more damage (these kind of choices could be added to a vampire perk tree) frost breath that drains health and the ability to go ethereal like the dragon shout but it drains health to those who get too close.

Weaknesses to temples (Having the same effect that sunlight does) and gaining no nourishment from food.

Vampire enemies should be.
Vigil of Stendarr.
Cult of Meridia.

There is no benefit to being a vampire if your not a stealth player, I tried taking the vampire warrior route too with one of my characters. If you wanna be a vampire, your practically restricted to being a stealth character. After seeing how they redid the entire class system for Skyrim, I can't help but ask, isn't restricting players to certain archetypes the sort of thing they were trying to get away from? And even If you are a stealth character, to get the most out of the skill bonuses, you gotta be a stage 4 vamp. Yeah, good luck walking/sneaking into town at night and finding someone to barter with. The only other route is barter during the day, your health, magicka, and stamina is damaged, not to mention it doesn't regenerate, on top of being attacked on sight by guards and townspeople on sight. Even for a stealth player, just successfully getting to a shop and bartering without being attacked is a bigger pain in the ass then to actually taking a break from looting caves because your over encumbered. Even if the vamp stat boosts were for warrior players, if you wanted to get the most out of the stats, you would have to go through the scenario mentioned above when you wanted to barter, do quests, buy homes, and/or do anything in town. Not very fun, Believe me I know this!

No. Until official confirmation is out, I refuse to believe it. Right now I don't call them Volkihar, neither the Order. I give no [censored] about which vampires these are. Too many loopholes and not enough credible information. Just too many speculation. And when they say within Breton cities they could well mean hidden in castles(Pale Lady) and etc.

If these Volkihar did the same to compete with the Order, I hope they get their asses kicked like every other clan out there. Just my two cents. Video-game lore is not worth over a headache. Bethesda can fix this if they want to.

Only the current vampires forces you to be a stealthy class, in oblivion, you could be any class type you wanted.
this is the problem, most of the bonuses are gone and so player have to rely on the illusion and sneak enhancement which the majority don't care about.
just compare the bonuses of ALL vampires in TES and you will find these vampires are the bottom feeders and the lowest of low.

The bonuses would make being a vampire worth the aggro of feeding and then bartering etc. in the video which on the first post in this thread, it shows a vampire kill move which shows it feeding. so if most of this get implemented then there is an other way to feed besides sneaking into houses which i don't have a problem with entirely since its quite easy but its a boring method.

WTF why is none of that in the game? I love how they sum up the games lack of such features by saying "imagine if we always work like that"

I say start working like that and put it all in dlc