I tend to think that way too.

yeah, im quite worried about how Fallout 4, or even the next TES game will turn out

morchai-

i hear you, but, i have a problem with that rationale. as if one must negate the other. it doesn't.

more dialogue and choices takes creativity. it doesn't mess up the "freedom" factor of TES. in fact, i can easily argue the exact opposite: the decisions gamesas made in skyrim are MORE limiting than previous games. in fact, i do assert that claim.

there are so many things OPTION-wise that they could have included at absolutely no cost to that so-called "freedom."

cmon- generic quests, no economy, mostly irrelevant looting/treasure, poor dialogue, repatative dialogue, the horse system, etc.

and, i haven't even talked about the gameplay option/customization type absences, such as, diasable fast travel, weapon degradation, limited potion use, potions over time, sleep/eat penalties, the damn hud settings menu being all tied together, auto regeneration, climate penalties.

I want a turn-based FO-4. The arcade style is pretty old now. There are way more RPG opportunities with a turn-based system than a real-time one.

There's enough freedom in Skyrim so that you can build your own RPG within. Classes being abandoned, you can Rp whoever you want with whatever skills and personality you want. You just have to use your imagination.

i wonder how many people here love kotor1, but, complain about morrowind's combat.

btw, kotor2 kicks 1's boot everyday. i can replay 2 today, but, can't get off the dumb planet in 1 due to it's boringness and lack of gameplay.

Damn you, now you got me into wishful thinking, and dreaming about something that I will never get to see or experience...unless SSI, Interplay and Black Isle suddenly resurrect, join together and return to make the most EPIC game ever...

I am far from a seasoned gamer. Skyrim is my first game outside the EA sports world that I have played. I got hooked at a x-mas party whent he kids were playing Skyrim. I took over the game and enjoyed as the kids were making fun of the old guy trying to get through the cave. I bought the game for PS3 the next day. I have only 2 characters. The first is the classic level 50 in full magic armor with a house in every city and outfitted like a tank with magic weapons and gear. I just walked through Elder knowledge without a scratch. The second character I just started just uses magic and bows. I disagree with the premise that only "gamers" that have played every game and live the lifestyle can enjoy Skyrim or any other game of the like. I am far from a gamer ( I play about 12 hours a week after the kids are in bed and I have some down time). I enjoy the game every time I pay it. I found this site some time back and it has helped in defining how try to play and what skyrim offers. This is a great game anyone would enjoy at any experience level. Play your game and worry about your own enjoyment is my point. Maybey someday I wil be a "experienced gamer" and will be able to show my distain for the average player.

Why is this guy so incoherent...where does kotor have ANYTHING to do with what he just said??

That's never going to happen lol. Turn-based combat in WRPGs is even more extinct than written dialogue.

The younger generation of gamers who have grown up on modern action-RPGs only see the negatives of things such as turn-based combat and written dialogue; not the huge advantages.

After skyrim i've already decided to pass. I don't see this new guy Howard reversing the trend started with Oblivion.

The "G" in RPG stands for game. What you describe is just Roleplaying, similar to LARPing. Pretending a broom is a sword etc. The problem is that they more or less abandoned the "G" and just gave players an empty shell. Classes weren't "abandoned". You could always create a Custom Class in TES. The problem is that the GAME does not help foster any Roleplaying, but you rather have to do this in SPITE of gameplay elements that generally exist in an RPG. What you would suggest is that imaginary friends are the same as real friends. There is no substitute for the real thing. There SHOULD be content I do not HAVE TO IMAGINE. The framework in Skyrim is there, but their game design is counteracting the world and type of game they have built. They need to improve these elements to scale with their world.

Here is how Skyrim is if Skyrim was a book: Skyrim would have 1 Chapter and a whole lot of blank pages for you to fill. The problem is that you want to read a book and imagine it, not write a book. THAT is the problem with Skyrim. Most RPGs are like movies (which is funny considering the reliance on CG movie cutscenes in lieu of content in recent RPG titles). You just take it in what they give you, exactly how the creators envisioned. TES, has always been like a book. There is a lot of content and stuff for you to build off of, and you can dictate how that experience is your own way. The problem with Skyrim is that it is just a half-written book.

actually, apologist, i've thought the same things about many of your so-called arguments.

if you don't see the similarity between his turn-based comment and kotor, well...

would it help if i added a LOL? would that better help you to grasp it?

edit: and, also, maybe this: a turn-based fo4 would be sweet! great call carrot!

So, what you want is less freedom? You want everything be written? How is that compatible with RPing? I'm sure there's enough written in Skyrim, regarding the TES continuing story.

Yeah i agree... Most people that buy skyrim as the first elder scrolls game gets really confused.

Background: Still 40-something. Played all TES games except Redguard and the phone apps. Played P&D D&D and AD&D back in college, first and second edition. Loved Bauder's Gate 1 & 2 to death. Loved Fallout 1 & 2 (and 3). Wasn't too crazy about NWN to be honest. Played many other CRPG's, too many to count.


The freedom in Skyrim makes it a great game to RolePlay if you can use your imagination. But it does require self imposed rules as the same freedom takes away many hard-core role-playing elements.

I also self-impose the perk 'Only One Craft' rule. Just doesn't make sense to me that someone could be great at everything.

I have retired:

Anya Surilie. Female Breton. Pure Mage. College of Winterhold. Bards College.

Daral Berethi. Male Dunmer. Rogue, DW Daggers. Dark Brotherhood. Daedric Quests.

Dular. Male Orc. Warrior 2H Sword. Main Quest. Blades. Orc strongholds.

Onyx. Male Khajiit. Rogue 1H Sword and Bow. Thieves Guild.

Raven. Female Breton. Forsworn DW Sword and Axe. Markarth. Imperial Legion.

Svenja. Female Nord. Warrior 1H Sword and Shield. Main Quest. Companions. Stormcloaks.

Eric. Male Nord. Warrior 1H Axe and Shield. Light Armor. Companions. Explorer - been everywhere.


NOTE, I have never played a 'do everything' character as that is just too unrealistic for me. Each character has a focus that makes sense and does factions that tie together. I have also never had a character over level 36, but I don't mind as I just start a new one. Current character is a Nord Archer.

As far as role-plays and backstories, see my sig.

Not less freedom, more options and better progression. Consequence of actions. TRUE dialog options. Better scaling. Continue itemization scaling.

leburns-

i agree completely. i have said many times that i am FORCED to roleplay in skyrim. that is good, but, imo, mostly bad.

self-imposed rules are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same as those same rules being actual implementations within a game.

this "less freedom" argument is getting ridiculous in it's use. it is an invalid argument.

It's just the opposite of what the OP determined from his experience starting with the Atari 2600; the more experienced a RPG you are, the more disapointed you are likely to be with Skyrim. I don't believe he stated how many hours he has in Skyrim, but his view may change with more. Maybe not though- he sounded convinced. Good for him- Skyrim works.


For most of the critics, Skyrim has its disapointments. They are based on actual observable features being removed and choices being less. You could argue you don't really need those choices, in which case how about next game we have even less of them? That ought to be awesome.

No...please explain.

The one thing they really need to change badly is character feat recognition by the NPC's. That is something that is simply impossible to overlook or ignore. Take for instance the guy who greets you as you enter the bar of the Thieves Guild. I'm guild master and he still says "I don't care if you are friends with the Guild Master..." He's saying this to the current Guild Master. How is it that he doesn't recognize that I'm now the guild master? This sort of thing happens constantly in the game world and is extremely annoying. NPC interaction is the one major failing of Skyrim. I absolutely love the game world, I enjoy the dungeons (although they could certainly be more challenging), the quests are fun for the most part, and the towns were all fine to me. However those inexcusable NPC reactions and comments ruin an otherwise amazing experience. I don't really care so much if my actions change the whole game world but I sure want one of my guild subordinates to recognize that I'm now his leader. The same goes for comments like that stupid mage in Dragonskeep that keeps telling me I might like the college when I'm walking around in the Archmage robes, or the moron on the throne who keeps telling me "Your not as stupid as you look" when I just saved his kingdom from annihilation, or the guard who makes fun of me when I just killed a dragon and svcked out its soul. I get so annoyed by the comments of the NPC's that I honestly go out of my way to avoid them now. I would much prefer to be out exploring than to be in town hearing about the arrow to the knee for the hundredth time. I really hope this is something they put more time into for the next game whether it's Fallout or TES. I want to see better NPC interaction. And if they can't get these morons to say the right thing, at least have them shut the hell up so they don't sound totally ignorant all the time.

You've retired in a few months about as many characters i've played in both Morrowind and Oblivion. I never finshed bloodmoon and shivering isle but played those games extensivley, and still do. Skyrim offered very little for me to roleplay with, the whole world of skyrim just doens't feel right like other games in the series or even out of the series. For me it feels like a game specifically designed to sell DLC. Its fast and easy and leaves quite a few people wanting more right now. It'll do exactly what beth wanted it to do, make more money, its just not doing what I wanted it to do. Its off my computer along with that ancor steam, and probably will stay off.

nordic4life-

as much as i hate what skyrim has done wrong, at least, consider my words: accept skyrim's faults and simply start rping EVERY character in a VERY strict fashion. and, play DID for it to be even more worthwhile.

when i don't seriously rp in any gaming session i find myself bored and just "playing" the game.

hopefully, this can at least prolong skyrim, for you.

it has for me. though, the negatives are still there in every single session.

I disagree considering that Skyrim is more of an action adventure game than an RPG.

no, nor for any RPG
I've seen absolute neophytes put far more effort and thought into RPing their character than many an experienced gamer whos stuck in a rut playing essentially the same character in everything they play