The more games you've played, the harder it is to RP in a game. Assigning yourself limitations makes you conscious of game mechanics as you play.

A newbie just accepts the game world and doesn't really consider the idea of exploiting game mechanics. They wouldn't be familiar with the idea of grinding and would likely finish the game long before maxing smithing or enchanting.

Ohhh, you again.

They need to disable the radar system as well, it's pathetic for an RPG and it's not just Skyrim that does it. I get sick of game dumbing down ,where you get shown where to go on a radar, it's like playing a [censored] war game.

I dunno after 450 plus hours if I'm not getting the most out of Skyrim and having fun doing so, I wouldn't be playing. Is it "your" most, probably not. This is only the 4th game I have played ( I don't concider helping by saying no go that way, he went to the right, playing myself) So i'm not a seasoned RPG'er.

But I think Nyankajiit makes a very good point. What you get out of a game is different than what I get out of a game and toatlly different than a 12 yr old. Who's having the most fun? Who's getting the most out of the game?

I have a friend that I take horseback rideing . Should I stop takeing her because she isn't gettng the most out of the ride? I mean we rarely go faster than a walk and she can't see a thing. I've been riding since I was 4, she's only ridden (we're both in our 40's) for the 3 yrs.
( btw she bought my horses when I couldn't afford them anymore, and while she can't ride outside the pasture w/o someone their with her. I've often driven by her place only to see her riding around the pasture with a great BIG smile on her face)

What is the "most"?

If you mean that a newbie would be/become overwhelmed and someone with experience in RPG's or TES would have an easyer time getting a grasp on the game then yes I agree.If you mean for fun, then my answer is no, what you find entertaining I may not. And as far as RPGing goes, this is not the most in-depth RPG that I have plaied, so newbies have a leg up there where as if it was a little more RPG geared then the newbies wouldn't find it as amusing as experienced RPG players.

A few thoughts:

Investing all of your attributes into one category doesn't really work for many hybrid classes. My Cleric, for example, was a heavily armored sword 'n board warrior proficient in Restoration and vs. Undead magic. So to dump everything into health I'd lose my spells, to dump everything into magicka I'd lose the melee feel of the Cleric. Now take my Pit Fighter (newest class), if I dumped EVERYTHING into health he'd be a powerhouse tank and it'd be really hard to bring him down, even for a dragon or a giant. I don't really agree with this ideology.

Crafting is so ludicrously overpowered in this game you simply HAVE to restrict yourself to only one of them if you don't want to be a demigod. I blame developers for this horrid lack of balance, not players that use all three crafts.

Yes, self-restrictions add RP elements, classes, and make the game more fun overall-- but this doesn't make an RPG. An RPG needs dialogue choices, consequences to your actions, and some NPC recognition. Skyrim has none of this. There are plenty of "conversations" where I have ONE option to select. On the super rare occasion I can "intimidate," the NPC will react to that line and then go on as if I didn't threaten her life and we're old friends. I can be the most horrible mass murdering serial killer Skyrim has ever seen, and no one will ever treat me any differently than the most honorable hero in the world.

Restrictions can't make up for Skyrim's shallowness as an RPG. I do love this game, but the lack of depth in choices and consequences really hurt this game and make it feel more like an action/adventure than an RPG.

This.

Taking that a step further... I think when a seasoned role-player can successfully spot and fully acknowledge the game's limitations, that role-player--who has a great deal of experience with the genre and its various conventions--can then take those limitations into account and more easily tailor an experience to gain the most satisfaction out of what's presented to him.

Look at the Food Network show "Chopped" (if that's available to you). Seasoned professional chefs are presented "mystery baskets" with various, seemingly conflicting ingredients. Yet, their experience allows them to craft harmonious pleasing dishes out of what most people would find off-putting. If you're a "seasoned" role player, then I think you should be able to harness your experience and imagination to derive a great deal of enjoyment out of a game like Skyrim.

Take your "seasoned" understanding of the genre and use it to enhance what the game does well rather than lamenting what it lacks.

Skyrim is great game but not a great rpg imo. Most of your character's choices dont matter much and it's pretty incoherent. One minute the dragonborn is a hero and the next he or she is a murderer with no significant consequences. It's all over the place. You can also tell the game was made to be appealing to casual gamers so they can make more $$$. I just wish there was a hardcoe mode option.

In an open world game like this, there's no gimping like self-gimping. PC players are the lucky ones, they can play with mods that impose stricter RPG challenges.

Personally I miss some of the more "traditional" RPG constraints such as:

• Straight warrior classes can only wear the heaviest armor no weapon restrictions. Spellcasting is either prohibited or severely restricted to the simplest spells.
  
• Hybrid warriors like Paladins, Spellswords etc. are restricted to Chain maybe Scale to allow for more complex spellcasting movements.
  
• Certain classes like Paladins and Priests are restricted to Maces and Hammers because they aren't allowed to draw blood (Though bashing in skulls is somehow OK LOL).
  
• Thief/Rogue types are restricted to Leather type armor and lighter one-handed weapons like daggers and short swords for the stealth bonuses.
  
• Pure spellcasters/priests are restricted to Cloth/Robes to use the most advanced spells. Backup weapons are typically restricted to daggers and staffs.

Granted such restrictions are better suited for multiplayer RPGs where the players/classes can assume the more traditional "RPG Party" roles of Defender/Tank, Stealth/DPS, Spellcasting/DOT, Support/Crowd Control, and Priest/Healer. But even in a single player RPG game like Skyrim it's nice to have certain class type constraints. The Perk limit does help in this respect since it forces you to focus on certain skill sets making a hybrid class that suits your play style and it's impossible to be godly "master of all trades".

I also like some of the newer Computer/Console based RPG elements like the "hardcoe Mode" of Fallout NV, where among other things you would have to manage food, water and sleep. The fact that there is no such mode in Skyrim is a step backwards for me and I can only hope that such features get re-incorporated into Fallout 4.

Personally I'd think it would be cool if there were different modes available in game that would force you to adhere to certain constraints such as the "Checkpoint Only" saving like the OP mentioned or the truly hardcoe constraint that some players practice, a "Dead is Dead" mode.

If you read the designers notes from the early TES games this is exactly what they believe TES should not be. Their vision was an open-world rpg which give the player the freedom to choose any character style they want and not being told what they can be or how they can play the game. I doubt that TES will ever move away from this vision, and I am grateful that they don't, there are plenty of other rpg-systems with class and character restrictions out there to not need another one.

You do not need to be a seasoned RPG gamer or mature gamer to play skyrim. They made it so anyone could pick it up and play. they wanted to appeal to the wider audience who loved hack and slash by adding kill cams and beheadings. sure there's alot of content in game that takes time to get to all of it, but in all reality none of it is hard to get through. caves and dungeons are all the same pretty much. the path almost always takes you straight where you need to go. theres no, "hmm do i take this path or this other path". the puzzles are as simplistic as it gets. Match the symbols on the claw to the door. It was just meant for a wider audience as Todd Howard has said himself..

Definitely for pros. It's a no -brainer. The game was clearly not designed for the grinder or min/maxer. They're usually the ones who complain the most. While some story elements leave a lot to be desired compared to predecessors, experienced RPG wanderers can find a way to make the most out of it. As with the previous TES games the ability to set your own goals is a big draw as is the array of choices in the world. While a lot of console-friendly stuff has been slipped in to attract younger, casual gamers, there's still enough meat on the bone for the hardcoe guys.

QFT

If I wanted a game with a radar, I played a modern jet or other wargame. But when I play a game based in a land before modern technology I don`t want to see modern technology in it!

let me see if i care...nope

your posts are usually flame baits and un-constructive, so...

@OP: Definetely no!

If you take a mature approach to Skyrim then you won't get things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiAg9FMM8sQ or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_frLNCnjnY!

And besides, Skyrim is good ... really good in presenting an immersive world. But as soon as you interact with the NPCs you can't still pretend that they are people. You have to go to MMORPG games with "in character" servers to get that feel.

The entire game is geared towards casual players who run through the game. Those that seem to get the most out of it are the same players that would be happy with just about anything and don't really care about gameplay. These are the players that do not care about difficulty or progression, but strictly RPing. RPing in the sense that THEY are creating content or this world in their head and the game is not. They could be given say a broom and for them it would be a machine gun. Mature and seasoned RPG PLAYERS (let me emphasize players to draw focus to the fact we are talking about a game where RPG GAMEPLAY elements are vital) should be rightfully less than happy.

I would disagree.
In my opinion it would help the most to be stupid, clumsy and have the memory capacity of a seasond pot smoker.
This way the combat will give you a challenge and the Quests will be interesting and demanding + when stoned the landscape probably looks even better

On a more serious note: Just look at how many weird restrictions you had to put on your character - now tell me if thats the character wou wanted to play and would have naturally developed in an RPG by playing it or if you had to make him that way to counter the lack of any balance in this game.
Its really just about if the parts of the game you like in RPG′s are well done, if so you are willing to stomach more BS in other areas.

i will never understand this typical, incorrect point of view. it's does not apply.

why? because all the things that can be added to the game and will in NO WAY take away from that so-called "freedom" can be.....

OPTIONAL!! how hard is to understand the concept?

and, i'm not even going to argue that unlimited "freedom" comes at a huge expense to the actual functionality of the game.

skyrim is a simple game, with little depth or meaning, that must be played with self-restriction.

enjoyable, for sure. but, had everything available (like money and mechanics) to be thought of as best game of all-time.

No. If somebody is playing the game and enjoying it, then nothing else matters.

And by what rule do you measure a "seasoned" RPG player? I, too, have been playing RPGs (my favorite genre) for a very long time - since I first played Dragon Warrior way back in the NES days. Does that make me "seasoned" by anybody else's standards? What if I then told you that I happened to like Dragon Age 2? What then? Would my "seasoned" status be revoked? What if you found out that I like platformers, and actioners, and FPS games in addition to RPGs? What then? Would I be diminished then?

Don't try to hold anybody else to your own standards. Whatever it takes for you to enjoy the game is what it takes for YOU to enjoy the game and nobody else.

A seasoned RPG player is one that has a lot of experience with a lot of different RPGs reaching far back, and more importantly one that cares about RPG gameplay as much if not more than the "Larp" elements generally relegated to outside the game world. So, yes you are a seasoned RPG player and it has nothing to do with what RPGs you liked.

for me, with skyrim, a "seasoned rpg veteran" would be someone that can easily see all the rpg gameplay elements that are lacking in the game, can admit them, still get some enjoyment out of the game, but, doesn't hesitate to wish that the game would have been better developed.

Different people want different things out of the game, and no game can be all things to all players.

Some people want a sandbox. They want a vast world to explore and create their own stories. They want to be able to avoid having a story imposed on them in favor of pursuing their own narratives.

Others want to be told a story. For them the game world exists to serve as a setting for the story and should be a carefully controlled environment heavily scripted to reflect the choices the player makes as he navigates the predetermined story branches in the writers narrative.

There is nothing wrong with either preference, but meeting the needs of one style of play come at the cost of meeting the needs of the other. The more tightly associated and reactive the environment is to 'the big story', the less 'sandbox' it can be and vise versa.

As to the imagined 'depth' of other titles relative to Skyrim let's face it, we aren't talking Tolstoy here in any case. They are all just different flavors of simple. If you can actually be dazzled by the 'depth and complexity' of a video game story then I envy you. You must live in a world full of awe and wonder.

+1

As an RPG verteran who has played Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion there is very little RPG in Skryim. It seems that the definition of RPG gets more and more skewed every year.

Seeing as I believe your "main" argument was simply a way to demonstrate what you meant I will address your conclution: I agree, at least to a certain degree. It takes some self-control to get the most out of this game, and exploiting its mechanics will likely ruin it for you.
As for a mode that put emphasis on you roleplaying your character I do not know exactly how it would work, but I wouldn't be against it.