they never do that though, gamesas if you judge them on past deveplopment, they use the Revolution not evolution style of creation. If it doesn't work they will cut it out completely and try and reinvent another most likely equally broken or simplistic mechanic to replace it instead of evolving what they had to be better.

I'd say a lot of what Skyrim adds will be cut. Because it's going to be deemed useless or broken.

That guy does not know the meaning of being wrong, believe you me. He won`t stop.

The pot calling the kettle black

You constantly spewi the same "SKYRIM ISNT A RPG BECUASE ITS NOT SPREADHSEETY" stuff over and over when its false.

What funny is the amount of arrogent supriemicy you act like you have.

Leave Blade watcher alone, he knows what he's talking about..... arrogant supremacy? I don't think we are in the dark ages still.....
I believe that term was last used when the Catholic Church was still condoning beheadings.

Your attribute war is lost...... The attributes are not "absorbed", inserted, inherently viable, or even "there" anymore.
Perks are just "tricks of the trade", and doesn't count as any variable in real physics....... I wanna' know how the basketball bounces up and down
the way it does, not the fact that you can "palm it"....... I will never know what my strength is in Skyrim. It's not there anymore, it's gone......
not "you will be absorbed".

Perks are carrots waved in front of bunny faces as a tempting treat.

It wasnt my war though myself and Nell2ThaIzzay both showed how Attributes are still there. Ignoring it doesnt make it any less true.




Close minded people will reamin as they are forever stuck in an early 80's definition of what makes a RPG, increasily having less and less games to play as they grow increasingly hostile to the supposed simplification and removal that doesnt exist anywehre besides thier mind.

svcks to be them, I will be enjoying games for ages to come.

Except for the whole thing of "they aren't."

I agree too they aren't there. What they did was break down the drived stats and spread them around. for instance I can take perks to increase my one handed damage and you'd say Iwas "stronger" right? But If I didn't put it into stamina too my carry wieght wouldn't go up any so how did I get "stronger"?

Except all the features they served are still there, so by any technical definfitons they are.


The only thing that has been removed are the labels, and labels mean nothing.

lol, The sarcastic hypothetical questions arent needed. You sound perturbed. While I was also vague and short sighted, I also do not care. My main point is your enthusiasm "for those that cared 10 years ago" goes unheard while you are still buying every iteration. Essentially, in this day and age, supporting this type of game. Being active in the role of "trying to make a difference" on the developers forums, becomes a nuisance to others... mostly only when you sound bitter, just the tone, could use some relaxing. I've played Fallout NV for over 100 hours, and had fun with it. Personally, I'm enjoying Skyrim MUCH more than I did with NV. So, If thats how you define depth in an RPG, and NV is your prototype "RPG", then I disagree in "reputation" importance, and I can never agree with you in your other post about the decline of reputation as a flaw. (At least in Skyrim's case)

It means no more than me, who is a fan of Spellmaking in past games, and creates magic based characters almost exclusively, not missing Spellmaking in even the slightest bit.

You don't read the thread much do you? I've already explained how we got more than we lost, and the game is deeper and more complex than past installments.

Yes... and I do not agree.

Strength in past games effected Melee Damage and Carry Weight.
-In Skyrim, Melee Damage is improved by adding perks to the appropriate weapon skill, and Carry Weight is improved by putting points into Stamina.
Conclusion: The effects of the Strength Attribute are still in the game.

Endurance in past games effected overall health and fatigue.
-In Skyrim, Health and Stamina just have points put directly into them.
Conclusion: The effects of the Endurance Attribute are still in the game.

Agility in past games effected Bow Damage as well as your chance to not be staggered in combat.
-In Skyrim, Bow Damage is effected by putting perks into the appropriate Archery perks, and there is a perk that improves your chance to not be staggered in combat.
Conclusion: The effects of the Agility Attribute are still in the game.

Intelligence in past games effected your overall Magicka pool.
-In Skyrim, you put points directly into your Magicka pool.
Conclusion: The effects of the Intelligence Attribute are still in the game - implemented literally in the same fashion as past games.

Willpower in past games effected your magicka regen.
-In Skyrim, there are perks that improve your magicka regen.
Conclusion: The effects of the Willpower Attribute are still in the game.

Speed is not in Skyrim as it has been in past games. However, a higher Stamina allows you to sprint for longer, so it is simply implemented in a different fashion. Not different enough to call it a "lack of depth".

The Luck Attribute effected every other small Attribute in a small way. While there is no effect to do this in Skyrim, Luck wasn't a unique Attribute in and of itself. It was the epitome of redundant.

Conclusion: All Attributes from Morrowind and Oblivion still have their effects in game. They were not removed. This cannot be disputed. Any attempt to do so is completely ignorant to the way Skyrim works, and it is not a valid argument.

An argument that states you don't prefer the way it is implemented in Skyrim is 100% valid, as the preference of one implementation over the other is completely subjective.

But to claim that the effects of Attributes isn't in the game is a 100% lie. Anyone who continues to claim this is someone who is showing their colors as wanting nothing more than to complain about Skyrim, and they don't have a credible opinion. It's an absolute load of crock to say that the effects of Attributes no longer exist.

Isnt the luck attribute kinda in some of the lockpicking perks as those increase the chance to get rare armor and more gold, which luck did influence?

Yes that is true. You've corrected me on 2 items, 1.) that Luck effected more than just "a small chunk of every other Attribute" and 2.) that there is a perk in Skyrim for that. There is a perk that increases your shot at finding rare treasure, and another perk that increases your shot at more gold.

So you don't -prefer- the newer methods. That is 100% valid. I respectfully disagree with it.

That doesn't mean the new methods have "no depth". You just don't like the new methods, and that's fine.

Nonsense.

There is no disposition, there is no personality affecting disposition, and therefore a merchant's price solely relies on speechcraft skill and perks.
There simply is no underlying system of attributes that support their skills like there used to be.

There is no agility, there is no acrobatics, there is no athletics. Jump height and run speed are completely static.

I really dont know why youre so adamant in trying to convince people that black is white and left is right.
Attributes are not in the game, what they did is not in the game either.

Yeah, the carry weight isn't really as problematic as it used to be. Maybe the devs will phase it out, maybe they'll make it a chore again--probably phase it out.

Can't really think one something, but... here's to thinking that an Elder Scroll won't be part of any actual questline, next game. Only two out of five titles featured it--not even mentioning all the side-installments.

[A scroll will probably be there.]

they will remove all gameplay, instead TES6 will be all quick time events (there will only be one of these, the bigbad) and cutscenes

Yes they are. I just gave you the proof. It is in the freaking game. It cannot be made any more clearly to you than I have made it.

You are being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. If Personality (I'm sorry I missed that Attribute) helped you get better prices, and now there are perks that help you get better prices, then yes, it's EFFECT IS IN THE GAME!

You don't like the implementation. That's fine. I respectfully disagree, but you have the right to your preference.

But to say what Attributes did isn't in the game is a flat out lie. It is 100% wrong.

P.S.: Athletics and Acrobatics weren't Attributes. They were Skills. And no, they aren't in the game. And thank god. A "run" and "jump" skill is bogus. Instead, we got fully fleshed out skills with some actual content like Enchanting and Pickpocketing. You know, things that are actually -skills-.

Also, you can effect your sprinting distance. It is effectively an equal alternative to effecting your run speed. It is not the exact same thing. But it is an equal replacement.

Thats not 'proof', thats twisting words around until you get them to mean what you want.
Look, its fine if you think the game is fine without attributes.
But to outright say that they are still in the game, based on some weird nonsense like sprinting distance is just disingenious, I wont even go into the 'bogus' part thats just awful debating.
It is simply not true that there are still atrributes, and it is even less true that 'everything they did is still in the game'.

The proof of the pudding here is Skyrim itself, which compared to Morrowind (which did feature an interlaced attribute-skill system) is quite a shallow game. You cant even do half the things you could in Morrowind.
How about damaging someones strength? Oops.

I miss Morrowind's companions, dragons, trials & errors alchemy, horses, archery that does actual damage, ability to change trade, difficulty above lvl 25, aggressive critters that stop following you if you outrun them, random events in the wild, shouts, NPCs living their life and crying for their lost family members, housing and wedding systems, mining, models, animations, special effects...

Yeah really, it's been dumbed down. Constant removal of features. Like vanilla Morrowind's werewolves, where are they in vanilla Skyrim?

Your joking right?

He twisted no words nor was he being disingenious


He proved that ALL THE EFFECT ATTRIBUTED PROVIED ARE STILL IN THE GAME. I cant belive you are seriously saying this.

If having all the same effects in the game means they arent there then i guess having all the same features in two cars just one is in a diffrent configuration means one doesnt have them

Well I am.
And I mean it too, to state that 'everything attributes did is still in the game' is an outright falsehood.
You try finding a way to run faster. You cant. There isnt any speed.