I saw the video. Did you read my post? You can't expect a single game to be the best at everything. If you're pointing at a game that's known for having great stealth combat and saying "Why isn't Skyrim's stealth combat this good", then your standards are too high.

How are you going to install it?
You going to download a 500 gb game on your PC?

Maybe they should sell it packaged already on a hard drive. Plug it in and go!

Skyrim's combat is to par with that combat, IMO. All it seems to be is backing up and charging in with power attacks. And of course killing enemies by picking up and throwing wooden crates at them. Because that is so incredibly practical. There were kill animations, like in Skyrim, and a few kicks, but that's about it from what I noticed. Skyrim's combat is enjoyable, and there are many different ways to fight, far more than in most games. Personally I have plenty of fun with the combat system and anything it lacks for in specific aspects such as kicking, it makes up for in diversity. From brute warrior to spellsword to ranger to assassin to pure mage, Skyrim has all the desired playstyles. They may not be the best in the business, but TES games have always been superior to, say, Assassin's Creed, with its polished combat system (counter attack kill, counter attack kill, counter attack kill) because they are more than just action and combat. They are another world to explore, with thousands of options and choices, and exceptional diversity in all compartments

I just threw up.

Made an account to just to reply to this ridiculous post.

The worse thing about Oblivion was the total lack of attention to detail in the design on the world or the dungeons, and the lack of effect your actions had on the world...so far Skyrim has improved on two of these, the third I don't know about yet.

I didn't expect the best combat..that really isn't what TES games are about normally, expecting the best combat from a TES game is silly, its at least somewhat of an improvement over Oblivion, personally i'll take that.

Lastly, seriously someone liked Dark Messiah of Might and Magic? I halfway think this was trolling just based on picking that piece of crap as a good example of anything.

Was a crappy game that you could beat by just kicking everything, classes didn't mean A THING, it's the last game to pick as an example of good class design.

I'm sure there will be plenty of legitimate places to criticize the game when all is said and done, but it will come from people making reasonable criticisms of real flaws, not daydreaming about ideas which would be impossible to implement.

I think skyrim is waaay better then oblivion.

Not every issue has 6 options. Do you cut the guy out of the web or kill him and take the claw?

To me it seems, after reading *alot* of complaint threads, that people want the best stuff out of every great game from the last couple years combined in Skyrim. The horse riding from Red dead redemption, combat and climbing from assassin's creed, and the list goes on and on. The forum is full of comparisons to other games. I just think people have had too high expectations and want the best of everything. That's just not possible.
While I was waiting for my pre-order I watched alot of the vids released by Bethesda and I knew exactly what I would get. Alot of the stuff that people complain about where out in the open long before the game was released.

Skyrim isn't perfect, no game is, but how can you ignore what they achieved.

I think they did that because of dragons and the faster pace of most enemies in the game. Hard to account for an arc when you are aiming at things that fly. Plus, you needed an extra challenge when you could back your way out of a fight with the same speed you ran in. It would punish archers to make them target perfectly when they have a lot to deal with already.

No, he was just making that up, or maybe he got a weird bug. There's definitely an arc of flight.

Literally the only area I find Skyrim lacking in is the combat. That's why I'm criticizing the combat so much. The character interaction, the world, and the lore are all so great to explore. Now only if the fighting were as fun The reason why Skyrim's combat isn't as good is that your character isn't as dynamic as in Dark Messiah. In the latter game you can charge and stun a group of enemies and circle them and slash. Trying that in Skyrim is just waiting to have your blows blocked right back at you. There's really no way to create an opening for yourself beside shield bashing in a static kind of slow grind. And that's just the melee combat.

I like the new magic system, but it seems as if they borrowed a fair bit from Bioshock aesthetically and it seems as if magic doesn't scale at higher levels.

Now the stealth is the worst part. You're kind of floating around as if invisible while your enemies are oblivious and then you kill one without anyone really reacting. Or you shoot someone with an arrow and then every enemy starts to home in on your exact location without actually detecting you

I would like to see some OP suggestions implemented but I'm far from being disappointed with the game. Sure there are things that could have been done better but which game handles everything to the highest standard? You have to look at the whole picture and judge the game as a whole instead of focusing on the weak parts only. Its easy enough to take a single bit you don't like and compare it to another game that does it better while ignoring other things that are actually worse than in Skyrim.

As for Assassins Creed combat, animations are great especially finishers which are very fluid as they happen on the go without the shift to cinematic view like in Skyrim or Witcher 2, that change I do want in the next TES. But AC combat mechanics are weak and boil down to parry-counter attack for a certain kill. Once the excitement over finishers wears down you're left with a dull and not challenging combat system. It didn't really matter were you fighting 1 or 15 guards, they charged one at a time and all you had to do is press a single button at the right moment for an instant kill.

But if you shoot straight at a dragon flying in the Air for a ways away u don't hit it!

Because cloud gaming is still at its most basic form , take a look at the reviews for Onlive

Many TES games are Built around the world and Character Flexibility then combat then Extra. Correct me if im wrong but Dark Mesiahs is leveled is it not? And also I've honestly never heard 1 good thing about that game ever. I Rather enjoy the Combat of skyrim. Its much more fluid and has a faster pace. Idk how if you can stealth behind someone and remain hidden and kill a guy then why should they see you? Stealth can't be hiding in the shadows 24/7 because it would be stupid then. You're strong in caves and then outside you svck and can't do anything. They'd have to make you be able to create your own shadows out of thin air and at least being in the dark and moving faster or slower changed how easily you are seen.

When i've shot arrows and hit someone unless im near actual Light half the time they now are running around searching for me but if near light they'll start the search and instantly see you cause you know its easy to see people in front of a light

Sounds like the OP should play Assassins Creed or the Batman games.

I wish this game had the parkour/stealth aspects from Assassin's Creed (and AC quality animations). The investigation stuff from L.A. Noire and Batman. The horse riding and mini games from Red Dead. The Force unleashed type powers as shouts. Etc, etc. But I certainly don't "expect" that from ONE game.

All your points are perfectly valid suggestions about how the game cuold be better, but I don't know why you "expected" them if you've played Morrowind and Oblivion.

For me the Companions, the horse riding and the UI are the things that I think should first be improved.

I will agree, TES combat is not the best as far as the fun in hacking and slashing. But it allows you so many options that it is hard to compare any other game to it. You can use any combinations of swords, maces, axes, and daggers that you want, or add a spell, or favor a two handed weapon, two spells, or a bow. You can use home brewed potions and poisons that you concocted from ingredients from across Skyrim, or use personally crafted weapons and armor to tip the battle in your favor. As far as the diversity of magic goes, you can turn invisible, turn opponents against each other, conjure a plethora of creatures, throw bolts of lightning or balls of fire at opponents, create shield auras, and much more. Then consider the fact that you can now pair these effects. For stealth, you can combine a potion or spell for invisibility with a keen knife in the back to become the ultimate assassin, or sit back in the shadows and drop opponents by combining frenzy, slow, paralyze, and damaging effects. As far as melee goes, you can stun opponents, paralyze them, and even decapitate them in battle. I won't even begin to mention the countless strategies you must use to adapt to different enemies, if you are playing at a high difficulty. The fact that enemies block and counter back makes the game more realistic, as opposed to Dark Messiah where they seemed to be dolls for you to dance around and throw a few one hit killing blade thrusts at. I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your complaints about Skyrim. That's not to say you don't have some valid points, there are just many I don't agree with.

DM has levels yeah, but aren't all the dungeons in Skyrim self-contained areas anyways? There should be a more flexible movement system such as mantling objects. The reviews for DM are terrible, but if you look at user scores the game is actually quite good with most people complementing the combat and saying the story was bad. http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dark-messiah-of-might-and-magic

The problem I have with stealth in Skyrim was that enemies didn't notice as you killed their friends. This mostly happens with backstabs. They just stare at the nearest wall or something. On the other hand, they are sometimes too perceptive which happens with archery. In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmXk9C4pR0&hd=1 at about 2:50, the guy is killing people across a chasm totally hidden, and then about 10-15 seconds later everyone in the entire cavern is coming to his exact spot to kill him. And admittedly he did miss a few shots which I suppose could have clued the enemies in on his location, but that's a stretch and may be attributing qualities to the AI that it doesn't actually have. Anyways, prescient AI is wonky for playing stealthily.

I think your expectations are a bit high. I mean come on. . . I have never seen a game where you could strategically cut someones muscles or jump from a table and stab a man in the neck while throwing a knife into someone.

Also, you seem to be making a lot of references to Assassin's Creed. It's a great game but why would you want Skyrim to be like it. Skyrim should be like Skyrim, not a game that steals content from another one.

Did you mean Oblivion the first time? "the problem I have with stealth in..." I'm guessing you did right? Well that's sniping. There's a reason you don't hang around in the same place after you've taken a shot or two, they'll have a fix on you. Pretty realistic. My secondary is an assassin and I keep on the move; rarely get spotted as long as I'm stealthy and move every shot or two.

How? It's called Red Dead Redemption. It nailed mounted ranged combat, so we know it's possible. And yes, even with an Xbox 360 controller. Troll.

There's no denying that's there's a huge amount of variety in the game. And it's difficult to have melee-centered combat in games without it being either too hard or too easy (e.g. Assassin's Creed). First person melee is even worse, so in that light Bethesda did a decent job. It's just that since Oblivion I've been waiting for them to copy something like Dark Messiah, and I'm a little disappointed, like the topic title says.

Games have to focus. A development team, even with 5 years and lots of people simply cannot do every aspect. While I wish we finally had mounted combat too things have to give. RDR had great mounted combat, because that was a major core element of the game. Conversely RDR doesn't have a massive world with hundreds of dungeons and NPCs and had the most bare bones of a melee system. They're both great games, both with different focuses. The technology is simply not there to do everything yet, someday when we're playing The Elder Scrolls 9: Nirn it'll be different but for now...some things always have to give and take.

That wasn't my video but it has happened to me before. I'm sniping completely hidden, perfectly picking them off, and then the mob comes storming at me as if they all collectively knew where I was. If we're trying for realism, the realistic thing would have been for them to look around the area first before zeroing in on the exact spot that he was.

Edit: Sorry I didn't address the first part of your post. I DID mean Skyrim, because it does happen. More video evidence!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h522kW-6-h8&hd=1

Around 3:30 he assassinates some guy, and pause at 3:36 and it is obvious that the enemy standing on the ledge had seen the guy die.

Thats how i feel, theres so much wasted potential because between this and Oblivion, they didnt improve anything.

Its extremely stale compared to any other game released in the past 5 years.

Combat is nothing but press left mouse over and over, its awful.

People always wonder, gee i must have really good aim with arrows cause i always headshot people.
No you dont, if you pay attention to it the arrows magnetically hit their head, not that it matters cause they did nothing
with combat, so its the same as shooting their foot.

People say look at the Finishers with weapons so neat, no have you seen other games animations? This is terrible in
comparison. No blood splatter, no feeling of impact, no dismembering beyond random decapitations in perks.

Whats melee combat at the most composed of? Holding block until the mob hits you, then swinging. Hold Right mouse
and hit left mouse button. Hate to say but street fighter, hell mortal kombat in 1993 was more in depth than that. Can i dodge you?
No. Can i parry you? No. Can i wound you? No. But you can press left mouse over and over like a mindless idiot though, i dont
know of any games besides this that is so shallow.

And thats it, no matter what you do in game, whatever crafting, doesnt matter, in the end when you wear your shiny new gear
all you're gonna do is randomly swing your weapon in a terrible lack of collision at an enemy that only falls down when their
health bar isnt red anymore. How exciting.

But you can cast spells! Oh right the ranged equivalent of swinging a sword! I can now press left mouse button over and over at range
while i run sideways! That totally makes up for it. Maybe if i cast spells they will get wounded! No sorry they still run at you like youre
throwing pillows at them. Just keep pressing the button until the bar isnt red anymore. How exciting!

The super good graphics supposedly, walk up close to the mountains and look at the wall. Not so pretty now, in fact it looks
identical to oblivion. All the snow, do you see footprints? All the mountains how cool. Except theres nothing there, nice waste of space
that is. 1 Dungeon for every 4 miles of copy paste mountainside. Auto Attack swing your weapon at a wall, nice lack of sparks there or any
indentation. I think morrowind had more detail there, in fact so did link to the past.

Honestly what did they do EXTREMELY well in this game? Voice Overs? Music? Did they copy paste white mountains really good to
give an illusion of a huge world? Did they make lighting really good to make terrible graphics appear like they arent 8 years outdated?
Did they come up with exciting last names to the same enemy models so they can use a lvl 1 bandit for 60 levels?

Im sorry but you guys need to take your rose colored glasses off and drop the fanboyism and see the failure that this game really is.
It may sound exciting, until you see what other games made in the past 5 years look and play like and realize how unbelieveably stale
and shallow everything in this game is.