Disapponted In the Game

Post » Fri May 11, 2012 9:46 am

I think the OP is 100% right.

This is a video from the game Dark Messiah, and it came out the same time as Oblivion. It incorporates stealth, magic, and warrior builds perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR4ZAeYtYIU&feature=related&hd=1
This is the way FPS RPG combat should be done. The player is extremely skilled so he makes it look easy, but this is what Skyrim combat should have looked like.

And it's pitiful that Bethesda can't have the same thing. They rely on modders as a crutch.
Other than cornering, throwing knives, twirling weapons around, and one hit killing every single opponent, there was nothing different than Oblivion in that video. It also looked painfully easy. It doesn't take much skill to find a vital organ with a reticule that covers half the opponents body.
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 1:59 am

Yeah it's sad. I think the one thing that you can say is that Dark Messiah was a game with levels and Skyrim is open world. But isn't each area self-contained anyways? Doesn't make much sense. And the video even includes a bit of the climbing that the OP mentioned :P


Yeah it saddens me when people call us trolls, all I want to know is what is so special and unique about skyrim over say Oblivion six years ago?
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Beulah Bell
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 5:40 pm

Skyrim is 5.1 gb. They still have another 3.4 gb to work with.

Well maybe they left it with free memory for a reason?
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Lovingly
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 7:08 am

Yeah it's sad. I think the one thing that you can say is that Dark Messiah was a game with levels and Skyrim is open world. But isn't each area self-contained anyways? Doesn't make much sense. And the video even includes a bit of the climbing that the OP mentioned :P


Yeah it saddens me when people call us trolls, all I want to know is what is so special and unique about skyrim over say Oblivion six years ago apart from the dialogue system?
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 12:17 pm

This game is nothing short of amazing to me.... and my expectations were sky high.
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Catherine Harte
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:57 am

This game is nothing short of amazing to me.... and my expectations were sky high.

I completely agree!
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megan gleeson
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Skyrim is 5.1 gb. They still have another 3.4 gb to work with.

On my PC, they still have another 500+gb to work with. Hope they get crackin' soon.
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Dalley hussain
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 11:54 am

We all know the saying: To each their own. There are some things I am also unhappy about with Skyrim. But I think I can say this about any game I've been expecting and shelled out money for. But for the most part, I am very happy with the game. It is impossible for any developer to make a game that will appeal to everyone 100%. Impossible. If that made the game the way you visioned it, I am positive someone else will be unhappy with it "OMG, why did you make Elder Assassins Creed Scrolls!?!?" or "WTH, there are waaaaay too many spells I broke my fingers trying bind them all~"

It comes down to this: if the good parts of the game outweigh the bad then it's all good.
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Spencey!
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 6:55 am

Hey I played that game about a year ago and it was a strategic masterpiece. I fail to understand in 2011 that a game like Skyrim and all the experience of Bethesda couldn't reproduce an open world RPG but with the same action detail, especially since they now call themselves action RPGs?
You could just keep narrowing it down, too. Why isn't Skyrim's combat as good as Mount and Blade's? Why isn't the stealth as good as Splinter Cell's? Why isn't the crafting as good as Minecraft?

By the way, Bethesda never described Skyrim as a "action RPG". Ever.
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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:05 pm

On my PC, they still have another 500+gb to work with. Hope they get crackin' soon.

Well lets wait and see what amazing stuff the mod community come up with :P
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 6:00 am

Other than cornering, throwing knives, twirling weapons around, and one hit killing every single opponent, there was nothing different than Oblivion in that video. It also looked painfully easy. It doesn't take much skill to find a vital organ with a reticule that covers half the opponents body.

Like I said, the player is extremely skilled. He earns those knife throws through special moves. Those aren't normal attacks.

If you want to see someone who svcks to see the actual flavor of the combat watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vSQOYVOrb8&hd=1
Fast forward to about 1 minute for the good bits to start, and you'll notice the combat is SIGNIFICANTLY faster and more visceral than Oblivion's.
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Unstoppable Judge
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 12:03 pm

The conversations are lacking, with speech leveling up as I sell things seems like no thought was put into that part except for the perks which are meh.
Speech was too easy, and there were a lack of speech skill options. You could see the Persuade/Intimidate options, but they almost always worked for me throughout the game, even though my skill wasn't particularly high, and there weren't that many choices of them through the game.

Also, there weren't any cool missions like in New Vegas with the president, or investigating Boone's wife where you have to put the beret on. 95% were go here, get that, bring it back.

Like I said, the player is extremely skilled. He earns those knife throws through special moves. Those aren't normal attacks.

If you want to see someone who svcks to see the actual flavor of the combat watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vSQOYVOrb8&hd=1
Fast forward to about 1 minute for the good bits to start, and you'll notice the combat is SIGNIFICANTLY faster and more visceral than Oblivion's.
I hated Dark Messiah, but I like how the enemies react to hits in that video. Bethesda don't seem to have the skill to implement these things.
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 4:13 pm

I don't think any of the complaints you have against the game are things that were not already known to be absent. I knew there was no climbing, for instance. Do a little research before you buy. That way you will not buy a game and then come to its forum to gripe.

And for the record, anything looked and played better than the casting in oblivion. Nothing disturbed me more than that stupid looking fireball that somehow incinerated people.

Let me preface what I’m about to say with the following statements. My experience is only on the Xbox 360. I’m a huge Elder Scrolls fan and thoroughly enjoyed Morrowind and Oblivion. The game world Bethesda designed is amazing. It’s huge, detailed, and exists with out the interaction of my character. I love a lot of things about the game world that was created. Even the handful of bugs I’ve encountered do not detract from the game world’s sheer awesomeness.

That being said, there are several game play mechanics that are terrible. The combat is horrible! There is no other way around it. Even with the added perks the combat is seriously lacking. In no particular order I’ll explain my problem with the combat and other issues.

The dodge feature was removed. I’m not sure why Bethesda scraqed this. Combat now only consists of trying to dps down you’re opponent before he kills you. Your only combat skill to help you is blocking. This leads to very boring fights with any class you play. The controls are already set up perfectly for dodging with the sprint button. Just tap your movement direction while pressing sprint and you could dodge, have it take stamina, and have armor and perks affect it and problem solved.

The sword combat doesn’t feel fluid, and it should (and could) be a lot better. The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion was one of the first games to be release with Xbox 360, since then dozens of great games of come out. The boring, straight up combat that we experienced in Oblivion, should have evolved with the release of Skyrim. Simply beating on your enemy while their health bar goes down is outdated. The combat should be something more like Assassin’s Creed, with parries and counter attacks. The only thing Bethesda added was the cool kill animations, but they come off like an after thought because they are triggered randomly and not by the players use of a skillful move. The only things the kill animations show me is that because they sometimes happened in first person view, that is totally possible to have a badass looking fight in Skyrim, if the game developers had put the mechanics in their. I want to be able to side step a weak enemy, like a standard bandit, as he does a power attack and bring my sword across the back of his neck, cleanly removing his head from his shoulders. Or, parry an attack with dual daggers, and find the exposed flesh between armor joints and slice the tendon that holds pectoral muscle to the clavicle, weakening my enemy as I gracefully step away from the encounter. Picture the scene from Game of Thrones when Bronn the sell-sword is fighting in only leathers against the fully plated knight in the Eyrie throne room. Sure, there should still be moments when I bash against someone blow for blow because an opening hasn’t presented itself, but the level system, perks, and enemy level (from basic bandit to knight) allow for a seamless transition.

The magic system (at least on 360) is terrible. You can only use 2 spells at a time, and have to pause combat every time with the favorite button to reassign spells. It was a cool idea, taking a direction from Bioshock and binding spells to your hands. The only problem is even utility spells need to be cast that way. This was a huge mistake. Certain spells should be able to be hot barred to some button on the d-pad (there are still 7 buttons left and for non-casters, potions and scrolls could go there). Without breaking combat I should be able to cast fire spells, summon an undead baddy, and still have my summoned sword out and refresh my armor spell if I need it. Just think of that scene from The Fellowship of the Ring when Gandalf has his sword and staff and is fighting the Balrog. I know Gandalf is a super badass, but you’re the freaking Dovahkiin! There also isn’t a good way to slow enemies down as they are coming at you. I’m talking like trapping their feet in ice and then lighting bolt there [censored]. Some people might say that it would be too easy, but there are usually quite a few enemies to engage at the same time. Sure if you want to kill one guy then run away and hide until the remaining guys stop looking for you, that’s one incredibly boring way to play.

Which segways me into my next point, the AI is lame. On adept difficult (which is normal difficulty), I can sneak into a room full of people, slit one guys throat, run away and hide, and once all the chaos is over, it’s back to business as usual for the remaining bad guys. There friend is still sitting in the chair at the dinner table, neck sliced open and they will sit down across from him and continue there disjointed conversation they are having with themselves. Yes, I know assassin characters need to be able to attack again from sneak or they won’t have a chance, but come on, there are much better ways to do it. Something like jumping down from above onto the dinner table, driving my daggers into the guys neck and then throwing a knife into a dudes face, something. The patrol routes don’t make sense a lot of the time, they walk in circles or are triggered by you entering the room. Why is the bandit leader at the top of the tower walking in circles with one of her guards? The AI in general is unrealistic and all around not great. If I’m beating on a guy at the beginning of a bandit hideout and he turns and runs away yelling, “I yield, please don’t hurt me” I’m thinking he should be running further into the hideout yelling “Help, this crazy cat guy is trying to kill me, get your arses up.”

There is no climbing. Why is there no climbing? Example, I’m sneaking up a mountain camp. The path makes a U-shape as it climbs higher up the peak. I cast a detect life and see a guy standing at the end of that U path. I look to my right and coming out of the mountain are these ruins that make a perfect ramp up the side of the mountain. I think to myself, “Awesome, I can stand on any thing in this game let me use this to my advantage and get behind the sentry and I’ll introduce him to my Dwarven dagger. But to my dismay once I reach the top of the ruins, the ledge to the path, which is only about to my shoulders while crouched, is out of my jump reach. So I get out of crouch, now the ledge is to my stomach and I still can’t jump up high enough and the second I try to the sentry hears me. I want to be an assassin pirate pulling up over the side of ship with a dagger in my teeth. The recent release of Battlefield 3 shows that climbing and vaulting animations can be done really well in the first person and again the game already has controls that can accommodate these features. Hold jump button to climb over obstacles (I’m talking about flat surfaces, not jagged mountains, but I’m pretty sure with current programming abilities other surfaces wouldn’t be a problem to a certain extent).

There are also dozens of other things that should and could have been made better, changed, or added in that bug me, but are not game changers like my major grips above. Here’s a few:
Horse back combat (including archery). Since the domestication of the horse up until World War I, troops have fault on horseback. Since riding is already in 3rd person in Skyrim, it’s set up perfectly.

Getting off the horse when I’m being attacked. I can understand if I was wearing 100lb plate armor, the need for slowly dismounting while feral dogs are attacking me, but why can’t I jump off quickly while I’m wearing cloth or leather?

Lock picks are made of a rare brittle metal and I’ve got a heavy hand. I’m not sure how ancient, or medieval locks worked (I imagine a simpler version of modern locks), but the lock picking in Skyrim is very dated.

All the cool utility spells are gone. They just keep whittling down magic with each new Elder Scrolls.

The dragons (at least the early ones) don’t do cool combat like tail whips, or chasing me down on my horse, or trying to pick me up.

The conversations are lacking, with speech leveling up as I sell things seems like no thought was put into that part except for the perks which are meh.

I’ve been waiting for Skyrim for a long time, and now that it’s here, I’m disappointed and I know exactly why. In technical terms, the game lacks, when it comes to your character, a sense of bad-assery. Yes, the environment is badass. The dragons are pretty badass (except for the things mentioned above). How the environment (not the world), lives on without you, animals fighting and people killing each other, thieves stealing and what not is badass. But even though my character is the “chosen one”, first dragon born in centuries, I’m not a badass, I can’t do badass stuff. My interactions in the huge, supposed sandbox environment is stifled and boring. I’m very disappointed in Bethesda for not evolving their game to the quality level I was expecting. All the components are there, and the game should be able to accommodate. As my gripes affect every aspect of the game, except for the crafting (which isn’t great either), I think I’m going to Craig’s list it.

Am I the only one that thinks this?

And when responding to this post don’t use the lame argument that combat isn’t the main focus of the game. That just isn’t true. Every where you go, every place you explore, and almost every quest that isn’t a fetch quest involves combat. That ends up being at least 70% of the meat of the game.
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BRIANNA
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:42 am

I don't know if the economy is there, but you'd have to do some experimenting to find out.
The graphics are better on PC than they are on consoles. The game would look beautiful with Oblivion graphics, anyway.
Beth never said anything at all regarding the PC UI before the release.
There is Radiant Story.
There is no economy. Prices are static wherever you go. I loved it when I had a bunch of carrots and potatoes on me and I went to Winterhold. The general trader stated something about there not being much trade making it difficult for food. I tried to sell him my potatoes and carrots, and the price was the same as it was in Whiterun, 0 gold a piece.

No one else in the world buys anything. You see people cutting wood, farming, forging, etc, but they are just going through the animations. They are not actually producing anything. Riverwood should mill for Whiterun, and regularly send traders to sell their firewood to people in Whiterun. They should then bring back food, weapons, armor, and wealth to Riverwood. If Riverwood produces too much wood, then the value of wood should go down it whiterun, reducing the amount of food that riverwood can buy etc. There is no dynamic economy, simply an impersonation.

The graphics are exactly the same as the consoles. Sure, higher res, AA/AF etc. But it is still a DX9 game with the same textures as the consoles.

Actually they stated that there would be a specific UI made just for the PC

Yes, there is. But to what degree? I haven't played enough to see, but, based of off Radiant AI, it is probably toned all the way down, and nothing like what they showed it to be before release.
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rheanna bruining
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 6:16 am

Anyway, Is there 70 voice actor in the game?
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bonita mathews
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 pm

Yeah it saddens me when people call us trolls, all I want to know is what is so special and unique about skyrim over say Oblivion six years ago apart from the dialogue system?
Buddy, the dialogue system is different. The game is more adaptive. Graphics are significantly improved. Dragons have been added. Huge amounts of content in new crafting systems and subtler additions such as menial occupations have been added. The dungeons are possibly the most diverse and beautiful in a game to date. The game has been expanded. Despite it's shortcomings in allowing you to do backflips off of buildings and land with your sword in your opponents back, the combat is significantly improved aesthetically and technically. Must I go on?
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Miragel Ginza
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:50 pm

You could just keep narrowing it down, too. Why isn't Skyrim's combat as good as Mount and Blade's? Why isn't the stealth as good as Splinter Cell's? Why isn't the crafting as good as Minecraft?

By the way, Bethesda never described Skyrim as a "action RPG". Ever.

If you watched the video that he responded to, it shows stealth combat in a first person RPG doesn't need to svck. It's sad that a first person RPG made in 2006 has better combat than a game made by a studio with a lot of money and people behind it in 2011.
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Lindsay Dunn
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 1:24 am

This game is nothing short of amazing to me.... and my expectations were sky high.


Good I'm happy for you.
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sunny lovett
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 12:16 pm

did anyone actually read this?


Yeah I did.. Why, becuase it's damn informative. Great post.
As much as I'm loving the game, he does have valid points. I agree with everything he mentioned, it could be alot better, it should be alot better.
As good as the game is now, it does have some dated things that should have been improved on. They have had alot of time on this game to have made those improvements. Look at other games and the technology they have right now. I'm hopeful that Bethesda will release some patches to improve some gameplay & other things in the future.
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Natalie Harvey
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 3:50 am

Buddy, the dialogue system is different. The game is more adaptive. Graphics are significantly improved. Dragons have been added. Huge amounts of content in new crafting systems and subtler additions such as menial occupations have been added. The dungeons are possibly the most diverse and beautiful in a game to date. The game has been expanded. Despite it's shortcomings in allowing you to do backflips off of buildings and land with your sword in your opponents back, the combat is significantly improved aesthetically and technically. Must I go on?
But what about square pixel shadows? I mean cmon guys...
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Philip Rua
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 6:25 am

I agree that combat needs an overhaul. Trust me, it's a common complaint and I'm sure they'll address it for TES VI. They worked their asses off to give you what they got and if they make a killing with Skyrim, they'll hire new talent to patch up the holes. These guys are making an entirely new world and you want everything in that world to be perfect?

In 5 years, we'll see another huge amazing game with new staff dedicated to improving combat and AI and all that. They'll see all these complaints and they want to make good games. . . I bet they'll come up with something.

Kingdoms of Amular. It's coming out soon =)
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Gavin boyce
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:02 pm

I disagree and really feel like you're nitpicking here.

Speech leveling as you sold things operated this exact same way in oblivion except you could manipulate it a little more but to little effect.
Dragons do do a tail whip, play in 3rd person to see the animation, otherwise i guarantee you've been staggered fighting a dragon from its side and not put even the slightest bit of thought in to what might have happened.
Cool utility spells are gone? Such as? All the practical utility spells are still there, and they even added a lot in the way of necromancy/conjuration, and more "action" oriented spell casting. Magic is better now then ever.
I have no problem with lock picking even master locks with not a single perk invested in lockpicking, oh noes you might break a few of the 90 lock picks you've stashed away.

And my favorite, most ridiculous request of all. Mounted combat! Ahhh yes, it could be done like soo easily brah! Given the terrain, and you and your horses propensity to hang up on rocks, fallen trees, and whatever else. I don't really feel at all like it would have been a practical implementation, never mind that even if it were in how endless you people would cry about its difficulty and/or that you can't do it all the time.

Your complaints, certainly to me, rank among the most ridiculous any one can levy at this game. You're essentially disappointed in the game because its... wait for it... not the perfect game with anything and everything we could possibly want.

I really kind of feel like i got trolled by your post, i mean how the [censored] can you [censored] and say you want mounted archery in this game when you play using a xbox 360 controller???!?`1`132414

Yea, i got trolled.
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 4:39 am

Buddy, the dialogue system is different. The game is more adaptive. Graphics are significantly improved. Dragons have been added. Huge amounts of content in new crafting systems and subtler additions such as menial occupations have been added. The dungeons are possibly the most diverse and beautiful in a game to date. The game has been expanded. Despite it's shortcomings in allowing you to do backflips off of buildings and land with your sword in your opponents back, the combat is significantly improved aesthetically and technically. Must I go on?

the dungeons are improved I'll give you that, but other than that... Also I've noticed the further you go into the game the dialogue options are changing from 6 options at the beginning to back to the usual Oblivion 2 style basically yes or no?
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Bethany Watkin
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 11:30 am

On my PC, they still have another 500+gb to work with. Hope they get crackin' soon.
It has to fit on a disc. Blue-ray is only 50 gb.
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Scott Clemmons
 
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Post » Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 pm

It has to fit on a disc. Blue-ray is only 50 gb.

Funny, what's the point of consoles having hard drives and being hooked to the internet, hmmm?
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Josh Trembly
 
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