No its not. SO what the fiends and BoS can get vegas ? The kings ? No no good leaders.

And the BoS like house said arent a force for good. Removing all power the BoS would go at helios then it would try and take over the strip. Souldnt happen. The BoS are elitists who think only they deserve technology. And the only tech they take is used to kill others and take theirs.
Give Ed e to the followers they harness power of the sun, give it to BoS they make a small army of eyebots.

sir if you call freeside "orderly" I don't want to know your definition of disorganized is...



They horde technology (and on top of that they don't even make it themselves) and refuse to accept establish authority, instead they form a militant organization with fanatical overtones. Perhaps "terrorist" is too strong a word though, "rebel insurgents" may be a better term.



"Jerks" with advanced technology and a highly trained military force with a viable means to restore America none the less..... :spotted owl:




But it was apparently enough to keep out everyone from tribals to NCR troops for 200 years.... :facepalm:

Yep, if we are going to ignore its made weak because its a game, then robots could kill you in 1 shot, while bulltes bounce off them. But that wouldnt be a fun game would it...

Freeside would be alot worse without the kings, i bet. They keep order in the streets, shoot any thugs they see.

The Brotherhood are no worse than the khans, or the kings, they were just better armed and better armoured, so house saw fit to wipe them out. No talk of a treaty or anything like that.

House let the NCR into the strip and the dam, didnt fight them. And the fiends were too busy fighting the NCR to bother new vegas. And house made a deal with the top 3 tribes to defend new vegas, didnt fight them

And again, those securitrons fighting a man wearing power armour would be intresting. Lets try and stay away from talking about that sorta stuff, because no way on telling what would happen in real life

In the words of Hilda Bloggs: "I don't see how it could have been much worse."



exactly the Brotherhood are no better than raiders and thugs, I think you made my point for me..



alirght, well in-game if I would try to enter the Lucky 38 without permission (say if I just started blasting at victor), while wearing power armor, I would certainly be killed by the numerous securitrons both inside and outside the Lucky 38.

The basic lesson of this thread is that we should all kill Mr House, *solely* for Cass' comment on the whole thing when you speak to her afterwards.

Im intrigued...I always end up killing Cass. What does she say?

I can't recall the exact words but it's such a hilariously weird WTF comment that I just stared at the screen for a few moments before I registered it.

Something like "Did you plug up his [censored] tube to make him explode?" (the censored word being a ruder word for the male reproductive organ, starting with a c)

You sorta need the actor's delivery to really understand it I think.

:blink:

No wonder I always kill her...

A good reason to kill Mr. House? He is the remnant of a society that had no care for human life, and solved its problems with a nuclear apocalypse. Basically, he doesn't belong in the Mojave; he is from a time that was wrong in so many ways.

That, and his mustache is a fake!

According to Julie the leader of the followers The Kings do keep order. Notice how they put down any thugs that start trouble, how helping the people of freeside makes them like you more. There a gang yeah, but their probably one of the most benevolent factions in the entire game. Could it be worse? head south into Fiend territory.


What viable means? the drug trafficking, the slavery? supplying vicious thugs with high tech weaponry in exchange for those slaves. How about the kidnapping and human experimentation on slaves and in a few instances there own people. Or what about sitting by and gathering data from the vault experiment program. Oh wait you must mean the viable means of sitting back doing nothing then swooping in to steal someone else's work. [the purifier] and claim it as there own. In the words of A. Ron Meyers an enclave deserter, he left when he realized the Enclave wasn't fighting for the old united states but was instead the "rich old bastards who didn't want to give up their power."

The Enclave's only concern is power there power and they'll crush or annihilate anyone that's a threat to that expansion. Autumn was just a bit more pragmatic about it prefring to blackmail an enslave the sub-humans.[everyone outside the Enclave] rather then exterminate them. The Enclave don't have a plan they have an Ideology, they don't care either.

The only viable means they've demonstrated is attempting to wipe the slate clean and start again. Which they've failed to do, twice. Unless they started the great war in which case they wiped the slate clean once.

The only problem with that reason is that he is a remnant of that society who wants to dispense completely with the root cause of the nuclear apocalypse: The Politicians.

If NCR takes power unchecked then sooner or later some populist little twerp with a brass band and riding pants will whip the masses into a frenzy and steer whats left of humanity down the tubes, just like the last "democracy" did. Don't try to argue it. History, especially the FO alternative one, has plenty of examples.

If BoS ever got any power they would hoard all the weapons tech, disregard all industrial/medical/production tech and crawl into a nice little bunker and rub their nipbles whilst they waited for another apocalypse.

If the Legion gets power the world goes back to a preindustrialized neo-fascist state built on an exploitation of slaves and women that makes any capitalist nightmare seem like the second comming of christ.

Basically if anyone but house wins now then the FO alternate universe is up a creek with no paddles, a niagara falls drop ahead, and a monkey sitting on your back, banging two plasma mines together.

I could argue with you on and on about why I support the Enclave and why others do as well, but I feel we would need to start a new topic as that could be a 7+ page thread in and of itself. So lets just (figuratively of course) slowly back away from the battlefield and keep our (figurative.. again) armies intact, so to speak. Here, a peace offering.. :cookie:



That's a really apt and frighteningly realistic metaphor.... :blink:

Fine I accept your peace offering, I will not continue to spout Enclave truth.

I have the exact opposite problem that the OP does. I can't think or reasons not to kill Mr House. Or at least I can't think of reasons as to why I should help them. In my opinion, he puts forth the least convincing arguments out of the four factions. Helping the NCR or the Legion is a matter of ideology. You like old-world democracy and freedom, support NCR. You want peace through tyranny, support the Legion. As for Yes Man, who wouldn't want to be in charge of the Strip?

But Mr House, he just gives orders and expects compliance. He doesn't bother explaining why the courier should want to help him, he just assumes that people want to follow his orders because of his obvious awesomeness. To all appearances, it just seems like the courier is helping a rich, powerful recluse become even more rich and powerful While he does eventually reveal his grand plan, he doesn't do that until the courier is committed to helping him. So without foreknowledge of Mr House's big plans, Mr House seems like the least attractive option.

And what about his grand plan? Spaceships and cities on the moon and what not. Sounds great, but one thing casts doubt on all of that, that perhaps his calculations might be wrong: Benny. Of all the people on the Strip, hell out of all the people in the Mojave, Mr House picked a back-stabbing two-timing weasel as his agent and assumed that agent would be loyal to him to the end. Trusting Benny as his agent was a massive miscalculation on his part. Mr House didn't just pick Benny's name out of a hat. He anolyzed all of his available data and decided that this back-stabbing two timing weasel was the best person to help him. It shows that technology aside, no Mr House is not omniscient and that his predictions for the future are not mathematical certainties.

Now I have to give him credit from pivoting after Benny's betrayal. But does he actually learn anything? His response is to accept a total stranger into his sanctum, and to assume that this stranger is loyal to him because, hey he's Mr House and he's obviously super awesome. In three of the four endings, he makes the exact same mistake twice. He invests unconditional trust in someone who betrays him. He's got his eyes so firmly planted on the big picture that he forgets that normal people can be petty, opportunistic, and don't always act for the greater good. He forgets that people aren't machines, that they don't simply execute programs like his robots do and that they have this pesky thing called free will. In the"House always wins" ending, his success is due to luck more than anything else. He trusted his grand master plan to a total stranger who had no reason to help him and that stranger said "what the hell" and helped him.

I would have to say Revenginator, although I would disagree with 90% of what you just said...you said it very well and made a good argument.

This goes well with my sig, and as no one else has claimed it. Sigged.

So on which 10% do we share common ground?

Naturally I prefer for people to agree with 100% of what I say, but this being the internet and all, I take what I can get.

My first playthrough, I sided with House. I figured that I owed him, since he saved my life. But he asks you to do some pretty dastardly things to repay that debt...like wiping out the BOS. My character knew nothing about the BOS, so it was pretty much a mission to slaughter a bunch of people hiding underground. The courier's responsibilty is to give House the chip, since it is his...but then he orders you to do what it takes to ensure his that he has all of the power. That's why he saved the courier's life...so he could get his chip (justified) and have a slave to do his bidding (unjustified). No freedom of choice.

My second playthrough, I sided with the NCR because I like Boone so much. I didn't find it very satisfying and was very irritated at what became of the Followers OTA.

My current playthrough, I'm siding with CL. To justify it to myself, I gave the Courier an Intelligence of 2.

I thought your point about Mr. House trusting Benny, the one person on the strip most un-loyal to him, was a decent one.



Isn't that like technically below East Coast Supermutant intellegence levels? :whistling:

Are the NCR and the Legion so different? if you can't get the minor factions in line your to eliminate them. Caesar and Col. Moore feel just as bossy as Mr. House [Its the lower ranking NCR who are happy to see you if your rep is good]. The NCR want to kill House because they want to annex the whole region. House is only opposed to the NCR because they want to take over all of Vegas. If they'd keep to the treaty so would House. But the NCR won't they send you to assassinate him because he's a threat to there power.


Your assuming Benny showed backstabbing weasel characteristics before he betrayed House. And his predictions may not be certainties but he gets real damn close. He saw the Great War coming and properly prepared New Vegas to survive, had the war happened but a day later. Well we wouldn't have a game would we. He can predict how The Legion and the NCR respond to things,.

The only two people in the entire Mojave he can't predict is Benny and the Courier. But even with Benny he had Victor dig you out minutes after you were shot. Once again the difference of an hour was critical if Victor got there sooner he'd probably have filled Benny with lead. Unless House knew you'd survive and become the unstoppable machine capable of tipping the balance but thats just scary accurate.
His predictions may not be certain, but he's damn close. Close enough to give him a shot. Mr. House has to trust the Courier because he has no choice, the battle for hoover dam is drawing near and he calculates you have the capability. If he had a member of the legion in his pocket he'd have used him to get the chip and activate his army.

And of course Mr. House's calculations are only wrong if you don't side with him. If the Courier wants to make the world a better place, House has a plan to do it and it doesn't involve conquering everyone in sight. If the Courier just wants luxury and power. House provides that as thanks for his hardwork.

Sure YOU COULD rule Vegas yourself with Yes Man but who wants all that paperwork, either retire to the Lucky 38 and let House run things or continue to be his right hand and go where the action is.

The Mr. House ending differs based on karma and shows that the Courier maintains influence on policy even with House in charge.

To add to the NCR complaints, I have to agree with Marcus, "They keep rolling over people, they'll regret it eventually, thats usually how revolts start."

Being in charge of the strip with allbut a feeble hunch about the workings, the dynamics ect of the strip? No thanks. The petty hunt for popularity around vegas that leads up to the end of the game is nothing. The courier will have to cater to all the factions and keep each if not happy then at least compliant. For decades. And whilst you have a basic idea of who runs what and whilst they generally might like you, there is no guarantee they will do that tomorrow or the day after you put laws forward they might not agree with. And on top of that you have to juggle all sorts of petty factions around vegas, and Legion and the NCR? House has decades of experience both before and after the war with the strip. And you pesume to outdo House with your week/month(s) long experience? Thats even more arrogant and ignorant than Benny. No... its as House says. You have a ground level epic oppertunity here. You can learn and gather experience. Besides killing your master before he has taught you all he can is not smart.

As for Houses calculations being wrong... Come now. Please. The numbers have not lied to House yet. The numbers have served him and Vegas well. That he tried to apply numbers to benny really isnt something you can blame him for. If you are right 90 or even 80 pct of the time thats a pretty decent record. Those odds are very soundly in Houses favor.

Accepting the courier as his new henchman is actually the smartest choise. He is a "clear slate".A man/woman who has shown considerable zeal, determination and perserverence. After all... anytime after goodsprings you could have folded and left for whatever Brahmin farm that would hire you. Cut your losses and moved on. I mean... who really risks going through all that for a package that isnt even yours? That you havent got a clue about? For 250 caps? You aren't tainted by the factions of Vegas yet and you should be smart enough to realize that working for the biggest boss, Il Capo de tutti Capi, who has access to more caps and more strings than you could ever imagine, is a pretty good prospect. In fact there isnt a better job in the wasteland if the world.

The rule of House witll be a technocracy or a meritocracy. Cold, perhaps, but effective and rule by reason, logic and aptitude. And it will last. the NCRs political line will shift with each president like leaves blowing in the wind. The legions is just set in archaic dogma. BoS cannot evolve and will die out as the bloodlines slowly decay.

House Rex Mundi.

-Hahah.. I aim to please .

well i went in game into the lucky 38 and killed the securitrons in the lucky 38 with a bunch of plasma grenades, no bother. I think i was around level 15 at the time.

Also a good example of mr houses arrogance, is if you do give him the chip, then now you are automatically his employee, and he dosnt even tell you of his plans. He just thinks, he will work for me caus im super awesome