The werewolf probally was exausted because it kept changing because it was getting tortured. Why would changing back and forth kill them anyways! they are werewolves.

No!!! I've played elder scrolls since morrowind so you do not know anything. Daggerfall was along time ago.

Well from their perspective you entire skelatal structure is stretching and reshaping your organs and growings, your muscles are expanding, so it's like 5 years of growth spurt pain in a couple of seconds. However, in recent movies and games, it seems that the quicker the change the less painful it seems.

I don't see the point in adding something when there's an artifact that does exactly that. If there was an artifact that made base form vampires great, believe me I wouldn't be asking for improvements.

As a side note, I want that bat face. It is very cool looking. Not the red slit though, which appears to be a bug.

Just because you are a werewolf doesn't mean putting your body through that much of a physical change multiple times can't be good for it. Not too mention what werewolf would want to, since they go through a lot of pain.

Maybe they go through the pain the first few times but then it probally does not hurt them later.

Why wouldn't it hurt anymore, they are going through the same change as before? They might get used to the pain a little, but it would still hurt like hell.

Gentlemen we don't know if the changes hurt them. We can guess the first atleast would. But we've never had any Werewolves document their transformation, and if they control themselves when changed they haven't written while change saying how they feel. Thus far it could always be agony ala American Werewolf, or it can initially be painful then slowly become less painful ala Underworld

We just don't know, our character won't tell us. so thus far. Roleplay what you think would be their thoughts while changing. Sometimes, if I'm feeling humorous, I like to think my Nord Male wonder while changing into a Werewolf if he remembered to turn the oven off only to realise while roaring in wolf form, that the Oven hasn't been invented yet.

But that's just me

Werewolves overall seem to be fine now, minus a few tweaks. These tweaks would largely be necessary to help make them different from another lycanthrope many of us have wanted to come across since we first heard about them: Werebears. One of these tweaks would be to include both werebears and werewolves, in pre-transformed states on the roads, and in transformed states in the wilds. I know we have wild werewolves already, but there’s one problem: They can’t infect you. I really think that has to be changed so that you can become a werewolf without having to join the Companions.

For starters, let’s look at what all lycanthropes should have in common:

Forced lunar transformations twice a month (Companion’s werewolves would be exempt, as would those wearing the Ring of Hircine). Transformations would last from 8 PM to 530 AM, and you would be notified about it several hours before the transformation sets in, giving you plenty of time to get out of town before you change. Additionally, Lycanthropes would still be able to change at will once a day, or an unlimited number of times with the Ring of Hircine.
Night Eye ability in both human and beastform
+10 Unarmed Damage when in human form (+20 for Werebears)
Ability to toggle between various howls/roars and Night Eye
+5% H/M/S regen rate in human form
20 points extra damage in both human and beast form when struck by silver weapons.
H/M/S don’t regenerate when silver items equipped
No rested bonuses while having the beastblood

To make werebears feel different than their werewolf counterparts, I propose the following:
Base their damage on Two-Handed Skill.
Base their armor on Heavy Armor (AR rating of 350 at 100 skill level)
Give them 300 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming.
Their sprinting speed should be a little faster than a horse, but gobble stamina. Conversely, their power attacks would use little stamina.
Their normal walking speed should be a tad slower than human form.

Werewolves on the other hand:
Base their damage on One-Handed Skill
Base their armor on Light Armor (AR rating of 175 at 100 skill level)
Gain only 100 extra Health and Stamina upon transforming
Very fast sprint speed and slow rate of stamina depletion while sprinting
Power attacks use more stamina than werebears.
Faster walking speed than human form.
Give them the ability to Sneak.

Werebears would have Roars, similar to werewolves’ Howls. These are the ideas for Roars I currently have:
Fear Roar (Stronger than werewolves’ similar Howl)
Disarm Roar (Disarms nearby opponents)
Adrenaline Roar (Roar that causes werebears H/S regen rate to skyrocket for 60 seconds similar to Histskin and Adrenaline Rush. Longer cooldown than other Roars)

i agree 100 % on this

It's a proven fact that repeated exposure to pain actually makes you more sensitive to it. Your body is telling you "Hey, stop letting that happen!" louder and louder each time.

Bones stretching and muscles expanding, and in "Physicalities of Werewolves" it is stated "The heart is the first thing to swell, long before the lungs or bones shift to accommodate it. This may account for the intense chest pains that some of the afflicted report directly before their changes."

So perhaps a sped up transformation reduces the pain because it's happening so fast pain doesn't register as much. I don't know I didn't do biology.

Yeah I guess no one knows or if either change will happen. Now lets all talk about the vampires. I belive the vampires should get stronger each time you feed on someone and to actually be able to infect others but only a limited amount each in-game week.

To be honest that is sort of what I had originally thought that feeding would make a Vampire stronger, like Dracula and all that stuff they drank blood to stay as they were strong. So a fledgling Vampire would feed to become strong and lack of feeding would weaken them to a more human state, so in a weakened form perhaps sun effects them less but they are less powerful, maybe?

Yes the vampires should feed to get stronger since they are the Volkihar, only the Cyrodiilic vampires feed to get weaker, but makes it so that they can blend in.

Oh so feeding effects different strands of vampirism. I didn't know that.

Could anyone tell me HOW all the various Vampiric strands started? did they all start as 1 master strand? then sort of seperate from one another over the years?

You do have a point, and the transformation is rather quick in game. But I still think it'd be exhausting and slightly over-powered if you could transform multiple times from the beginning. Whenever I want more transformations (With Savage Feeding it isn't too necessary) I put on the Ring of Hircine.

The vampirism virus came from molag bal.

I know that bit, but why are there different strands is what I'm asking.

I am not sure maybe we should read the lore of the cyrodiilic strain.

It gets diluted through the centuries. Perhaps each strain adapts to climate, which explains why Morrowind vampires are the way they are, and the Volkihar have ice based powers. Things like that, I suppose. But I am willing to bet Harkon's family are not the only purebloods in the Elder Scrolls. Lamae was one of them, but she was never in the game.

I see, so I have a question is the Volikhar have appeared before, why can only Harkon's family turn into Batman... or Man-Bat from Hell. Is it because he is pure blood? And if so, does that mean other purebloods will have similar enhanced abilities?

Because Betheda just came out and said "Oh, vampires can turn into bats now."

But to be technical, Harkon and his family were turned by Molag Bal, thus they are pureblooded if Molag had a hand in turning them into vampires. Yes, other purebloods would have the same abilities, because the reason we became vampire lords was through Harkon's blood, so it is obvious any pureblooded vampire can do so. Now if they would appear the same as Harkon's alter form, we don't know. Since there are various strains of vampirism and different forms of Lycanthropy, I bet some purebloods can even look like http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BK-r2kjulUI/TYW9gkPtM2I/AAAAAAAAADM/jDDlz83lbsw/s1600/Van-Helsing_7.jpg It is hard to know, though, for sure.

But not only purebloods are vampire lords. This sired by them can become vampire lords too, as we saw with Serana and Harkon biting the player.

Imagine for a second the incredible strain that a transformation like that puts on your body. You're talking about a complete and total change in your physiology. Your bones shift, possibly break and are mended when placed in their new positions, you muscles expand, you grow entirely new bones, etc. That cannot be a painless and easy process. There's a reason that almost every werewolf movie shows the transformations as being incredibly painful. Now imagine something like that happening continuously within the confines of a few hours. Your heart would probably give out from the stress, as your heart rate is most likely hyper accelerated during this and your feeling all the pain that this transformation puts on your body. It taxes your heart, lungs, and mind, and could very well overload them if done too many times back to back. Your body consumes a lot of energy just powering your ordinary, day to day actions, and I can't imagine it'd find transforming to be easier.

I wonder if count hassildor is a pureblood vamp?

No