What the OP video showcases is no different than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fFApDyki4

It's power leveling for the purpose of breaking the game, and then complaining when the game is broken. Level Enchanting and Smithing at a natural rate, and this doesn't happen and the game is balanced.

The problem with this isn't that it is possible to make something unbalanced, but that it is that way at default if you take a handful of perks and level it up. It it was an exploit or a gimmick like most of the spellmaking complaints it would not phase me. But it isn't something like chain stacking weakness to X because you found out Bethesda svcks at stacking multipliers, it is just basic make items and enchant them with obvious effects. Like the potion/enchanting loophole people found, big whoop just don't do the exploit. But this don't do it is more saying don;t do smithing, or don't do enchanting which is very different.

Powerleveling? He's level 53. You can see it in the first video. He initially was going magic, got bored, leveled Sneak, did a lot of archery.. After that, decided to try to see how Smithing worked.

Results. This is no speed run. It is a showcase of broken mechanics.

People like you just don't understand personal responsibility.

Which is really what this whole thing comes down to, isn't it?

The people arguing about how single player games don't need any game balance, or talking about it not mattering to them, and therefore it isn't a problem are doing nothing to make any actual case against the main argument, and are only trying to impede actual improvements being made to the game for the sheer simple reason that they have somehow managed to get such extreme cognitive dissonance that they refuse to believe that the game can be improved.

They're all just harassing people who actually want to make this a better game because they refuse to actually critically anolyze what the game's mechanics actually are. It's pathetic fanboyism is all it is.

Well at least this is an interesting debate rather than a landslide of opinions, a good read this makes

I am not sure which side I agree with as I have not played the game enough to judge yet. But if there is a balance issue then I do think Beth should at least address a few of the issues in a patch that many people are having.

What has not been made clear in this topic however is exactly how he has become this over powered. Is it through playing normally? (which means a fix is needed) Or has he gone out of his way using potions to raise his skill over 100 and then making stuff? (I am not sure if this is possible so correct me if I am wrong). If that is the case then it should not affect most players, although I have seen a lot of complaints here and elseware so something is going on.

Well, it could come down to that, as I do agree that Magic needs some sort of buffing. But I also think Melee enhancement in general needs to be toned down too.

I can understand fanboyism because when people play a game that they really enjoy, it's hard for them to feel like there's anything wrong with it.

Which is why I found these videos to illustrate that there are problems with the game, so people can rally to get them fixed, and think up solutions like you. Guess not though...

If he's level 53 in less than a week of the game's release, then yea, I'd say there's some power leveling going on.

Again, all of my gear is self smithed and enchanted - I do not suffer from these problems, because I am leveling these skills naturally, not powering them up to the max.

I would much rather have difficulty killing a boss than being able to one shot it. Where is the fun in being completely overpowered? It ruins the immersion.

Smithing and enchantments have to be axed. Spell creation was axed because it was unbalanced , so must this.

? Do you know what power leveling is? He is at a point in the game where it is natural to have several skills maxed. He is not destroying rabbits and deer. He's 2 shotting Elder Dragons.

He played the game faster than you. That is not powerleveling. All he did was spec a few perks in Enchanting and Smithing, and voila, he's strong AF.

Here's his build. http://www.ign.com/builds/the-elder-scrolls-5-skyrim?d=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005000111001000111111000000000000000000000000005010000011500000300000000000000000511111111000000000001101011

So if they make you have a maxed out Magicka schools, and you can basically walk around like Darth Vader and make all the Dragons you're #@$^*# would that be ok? Or are you arguing that melee needs to be nerfed? Buff or nerf?

Well played.

I don't feel like getting into it again and how this is different so I hope it ends at this.

So basically, you feel compelled to min/max everything as much as possible, and the resulting cognitive dissonance forces you to whine about how Mathquesting the game to death ruins immersion.

Reality is that there is always going to be a "best" build, and the game isn't going to be balanced around the "best" build because that would make the game, as a whole, less playable for those who choose an "average" build, thereby compelling people to use the "best" build. The game will be balanced, instead, around an "average" build which will, in turn, make the "best" build comparatively amazing.

The only alternative is to homogenize everything to the point where the only differences are purely cosmetic, at which point you would have something new to complain about.

All that aside, dragons are a little disappointing in general, and this seems to be true regardless of build.

"Cool, doesn't mean my mage will suddenly pick up a sword because it's "better".

This is the main opinion I have on the subject. The point of this thread seems to be to tone down melee, so I think it is better than the majority out there that are rants on both sides. Still, people like me who enjoy a game and see people debating about it like one playstyle matters to multiple people in a single player game will be hard to rally. I will try to think about these points though.

I think there's some misunderstanding going on here. I don't believe people like OP are looking for weekly balance patches and 100% equal efficiency from every different play style - s/he just doesn't want stupidly overpowered game-breaking exploits, which is perfectly understandable. I didn't abuse alchemy in Morrowind or enchant my armor with levitate, but that doesn't mean the nature of the system didn't bother me. I also didn't make a suit of chameleon armor in Oblivion or do 100% reflect damage, but it bothered me once again that I had to refrain from using the built-in game mechanics just so the game wouldn't be insultingly easy.

The problem with all of these things is that they aren't bugs. In fact, it's difficult to even call them exploits. All of these things are accomplished by simply using what the game gives you. If there are a hundred different enjoyable, challenging, and overall rewarding play styles available to you, but one that's basically an "easy button" that plays the game for you, I still consider that to be bad game design. It isn't that we are incapable of resisting the temptation and ignoring the easy button. The problem is that the easy button is there in the first place. Why the hell do we have to deal with this at all? Just take the easy button out of the game. A player shouldn't have to consciously ignore aspects of a game to fully enjoy it.

And stop saying this doesn't affect your enjoyment or immersion, because you know damn well it does.

As an aside, this isn't just the ranting of a butthurt mage. I would be just as upset if magic was as blatantly OP as high-level crafted gear or stealth. In order to make master difficulty a cakewalk as many have been doing, the player should be required to actually play the game well and think critically, not just power-level a single skill.

I think you misread my comment (or i'm missing the sarcasm)

Practically everything was broken in Daggerfall.
Alchemy and exploration were broken in Morrowind (stat boosts into the billions and the ability to get the best equipment in the game right off the bat if you know where to look.)
Enchanting and Spellmaking were broken in Oblivion (100% Chameleon and stackable weakness to magic spells).

If you think Enchanting and Smithing are broken (they're definitely very, very powerful skills now, and give more advantages than they should), then wait until the Construction Kit comes out, and it'll be very easy to modify both skills to balance them as you see fit.

People still making the comparison of one magic school versus a combination of skills for melee?

For christ sakes, you'd fail just as bad doing only one handed by itself just as much as you would destruction. THE PURPOSE IS THE CULMINATION OF ALL YOUR SKILLS. Use illusion, use conjuration, use destruction. Together they're quite formidable.

What you miss is warrior without 1h/2h can't do a thing ... mage without destro is actually stronger

you only need one damage skill as melee or bow.

destro mage shouldn't "need" conjuration to be as good.

I have to say, I agree with the OP.

My first character was a 2h Nord, I was probably one of the first to find out this OP combo of blacksmithing and enchanting. I have since stopped playing my warrior, haven't even beaten the main story yet. I basically felt that I have already beaten the game and I have nothing more to look forward to.

Since than I switched over to the mage, and to me the mage seems under powered. I understand that people like a Challenge hell I love Dark Souls and Demon Souls, but when I get 100 destruction and even while dual casting the same spell and see it only takes 1/20th of a mobs health that says that something is seriously wrong with magic. The increase in dmg for spells from lvling destruction is a joke. You level up destruction 10 points you maybe get +10 dmg on an expert lvl spell, while melee increases dmg around 2 points of dmg each lvl so 20 dmg every 10 lvls. Than there are enchants that increase melees damage even further vs decreasing the magicka it costs to cast spells of a certain school.

Heres a big example that sticks out to me from Melee Vs Magic, say your going up against a high lvl mage, as the magic you have an annoying amount of trouble because the mage can just continually pop a ward up like he never runs out of mana, hell I just fought one like 20 minutes ago that casted 5 Ice storms in a row than continued to just pop a ward every time I tried to hit him with a spell. The warrior can just walk up to the mage use a power attack and 1 shot the mage.

Anyway for people who say who gives a [censored], a lot of people give a [censored]. You don't give a [censored]? than shut up and get out why are you even posting if you don't care. Let the people who actually care about fixing the game be and you enjoy the game being broken.

my thoughts exactly

EDIT: Its hilarious though in a way, in Dragon Age Mages are better than Rogues and Warriors and everyone complains about that.

..Yeah. Some of these people are forgetting this is a single player game and not an MMORPG..

This has nothing to do with being single player or mmorpg, people play RPG's for the growth of their character and progression of the story, when 2 skills combined make your character a god and your not even half way done with the story don't you think that something is wrong? I am amazed at how freaking carebear the gamer community is now. They want everything easy.