200 hours in two months is quite a lot. Pretty intensive playing I would say. Anyone would need a break after that. Any single player game can only give so much. I bet you'll put in more time once mods and DLC and expansions come on line. After 2 years you might find you have put in a similar amount of time as you put into Oblivion.
But maybe not. Times change and we move on. Gaming itself can get a bit stale and no longer give us the highs we once got.
My first game was Age of Empires, an RTS. I had experiences with that game which I have never managed to repeat since. Part of that had to do with the novelty of gaming for me at the time; and where I was in my life at the time.

Well, i partially agree with you on that.
But more on the "rpg" side that as "whole games" if i have to say.

About the combat statistics; probably the best solution would have been a "Mix" of Skyrim and something like The Witcher for the roleplayers.
But think at "the masses" then

Its not easy to accomplish everyone,and sadly some of our "rpg priorities" aren't the same of the rest of the players.

And Beth knows well that. And because the sales speaks clearly nothing would change in the future in that regard i suppose

I enjoyed your article; excellent anolysis; though I was a bit disapointed Skyrim didnt do better on your scale. But it was all very well argued.
Thanks for linking it.

You write like a philosophy major?

Well if you ever do go through it and write about why you like those games I would like to read it.
I also think Morrowind is a great game....warts and all. I never could get too far in Oblivion. I keep thinking...one day I will put the effort in and finish the main story at least....I read that the Shivering Isles is good.
I will also have to have a look at Daggerfall.
Do you know of 'Betrayal at Krondor'? I have not played it yet myself, but from what you write and what I know about it, I bet you would like it.
Check it out:

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/betrayal_at_krondor

Ok how bout this then.

Morrowind, the general polulation treat u different, have a different disposition towards, even make u do aextra quest or let u skip certain cryterias due to ur race all of them
Skyrim, u get to skip the fingers quest and u get 5 maybe different dialogues. The general population will treat u the same weither ur a son of skyrim or a khajit

Morrowind, u have to rank up in society and guilds before ur eligble for quests. Meaning u have to earn a certain repuration for quests. Due to ur offiliation, certain people wont talk to you and some will atk on sight. Society is more intiwined with ur actions and due to ur actions will either increase ur standing to where people treat u with respect or u can increase ur disposition and the general population treats u as the scum u are.
Skyrim, the guards will comment on ur actions. Thats about it.u can be a full blown stormcloak and walk easily into their camps or citys and have no problems unless u atk first.


if we are baseing tes on sandbox, it still isnt adding up to its predicasors. Yes it added wildlife and better water graphics. But it lost the whole literal and communial sandbox. Hell I dare say that as far as beauty, its tied. When I played morrowind for the first time after I spent bout 400 hours into skyrim, I was ofaced juat getting off the boat. Hell at the very beginnimg I was swimming and foumd an underwater cae...right at the beginning. Where is the underwater caves at?

In morrowind the cities are huge, the general people have their own personality and u can get lost in the general flow of politics and way of life in each city.
Skyrim, u have about 3 to 4 houses with 2 shops and maybe if ur lucky some stands. There small and really compact. U can literally walk thru one citys gate and out the otherside in 1 min.

Do I have to go on? Yes skyrims is prettier but its just alot of looks.

Skyrim is like that bombshell whos been getting by with her looks, fun at partys much not much going on up stairs to keep her around long. Fun to play, just not commitment material.
Morrowind is like that older woman whos pretty but looks plain compared to skyrims younger beauty, BUT morrowind is a very open minded girl and u can do so much with her. Very intelligent and funny, pluz she can adapt to however ur feeling. Someone who will keep ya interested and have fun with even after her looks have gone.

If all things had gone according to plan, Morrowind would've been my first TES. However, Oblivion was my first because the Morrowind disc didn't work. I've played Oblivion to death and I think Skyrim is much better. I've had Skyrim for months and for a time it lived permanently in my Xbox. I recently took the plunged and decided to play Morrowind on PC, along with the overhaul, so soon I will be able to see how they measure up against each other.

As an RPG, Skyrim is one of my favourites, followed by the better games of the FF series (7, 12, 13) then Oblivion. Morrowind is yet to earn it's spot in the ranking because I'm not far into it, but that doesn't mean it won't.

As a TES, Skyrim is my favourite. It would be silly to rank it as one of my favourites above the other TES as an RPG but below them as a TES. Yeah, it's far from perfect, but then what game is.


Personal opinion, btw, don't shoot me for it, lol

In my personal opinion, this game doesn't feel environmentally like any other TES game. The RPG elements are OUTTA THIS WORLD though.

If by OUTTA THIS WORLD you mean absent because Bethesda fired them off into space somewhere then I guess you're right.

I don't agree, but I LOL'd

1. You play the role of the main character
2. There's a levelling system
3. There's a story

The three basic elements of an RPG... yeah, I agree they're missing. You play a guard after taking one too many arrows to the knee, that's all the levelling you do and there's no story behind Skyrim

Ah-hah! You have activated my trap card!

By these three criteria Call of Duty: Black Ops is as much an RPG as Skyrim is. Therefore we can naturally draw the conclusion that there is in fact more to being an RPG than just having these elements that you've listed, otherwise the distinction of RPG is completely meaningless.

False. Yes you can argue that Black Ops is an RPG because it has all three of those points. But here's where you're wrong.

1. During the course of the Campaign, you play several different characters

2. The so-called levelling system is only present in Multiplayer and has no effect on enemies, weapons and weapon damage and rewards. Also, it has nothing to do with the campaign.

3. The story is poorly thought out and quickly loses it's interest.


It can't be classed as an RPG because the elements are split between modes. Your trap = avoided, better luck next time.

Oh yeah, and I said 3 basic elements, I said nothing of the more intricate elements.

:l

please tell me more about the COD leveling... LOL

That sounds awful familiar.

I don't know how you can say that Morrowind set the standard for RPG's, but Skyrim isn't an RPG.

I have played both games. Morrowind is an all time favorite, behind only Skyrim. I have invested tons and tons of time into it, I am no "new player", I know what I am talking about with this game.

It's NPC interactions were no better than Skyrim. The "choice" and "consequence" was no better than Skyrim. NPC's repeated the same recycled text dialogue over and over again, and choice had no consequence on the world. Hell, that's if you even had a choice in the matter to begin with.

What does Morrowind have over Skyrim?

Some extra spell effects, a better guild system, and some arbitrary Attribute stats. That's about it.

It is not somehow a "gold standard" of RPG's while Skyrim isn't.

Skyrim is plenty RPG. Just because it doesn't do things in a "traditional" way doesn't mean it's not an RPG, and just because a game has stats doesn't mean it is an RPG.

1. So? During the course of Skyrim I can play several different characters.

2. So? Leveling up and weapons/weapon damage have nothing to do with Skyrim's campaign either from the sense that they don't affect how the story plays out. Besides, you can't take just the Black Ops single player and compare it to Skyrim, we're talking about each game in its entirety.

3. People say this about Skyrim's story.


LOL okay. You level up by using your 'skills'. By using your 'AK-47' skill you level up quicker because it gets you more experience by completing challenges and unlocking attachments. As you level up your 'AK-47' skill you get better at using AK-47s by getting a grip to make firing more accurate, or sights to make you shoot better. Both games also have 'Perks'. Plus, CoD: Black Ops has a lot of character customization - you can choose your facepaint, and have a very limited selection of clothing to wear, just like in Skyrim.

Need anymore?

You didn't avoid any trap. Just imagine this hypothetical COD game with those elements and a mind-blowing story. It still wouldn't be an RPG for the simple fact that the game is the prime example of railroading.

You further proved the RPG genre is down in the toilet. I don't know if it can be rescued from this stagnation.

CoD is not an RPG, and cannot be considered even close to as such because:

-The "leveling" has no bearing on a character, you are simply acquiring unlocks for things.
-There is no "character", the definitive basis for "roleplaying". Playing a "soldier" is -not- roleplaying. You don't make choices for, and develop, a character.

Skyrim is an RPG because, whether you believe it's deep or shallow, you make choices to develop your character and determine his path. You determine how the character develops via choices in skills to define who that character is. You make choices for that character within the world to determine their personality (and yes, contrary to hyperbole belief around here, there is choice in Skyrim, quite possibly more than in an Elder Scrolls game previously). You are actively in the role of a character, and acting as that character - the very definition of roleplaying. You are making character choices for that character within the context of a world - the very definition of roleplaying.

It is no less of an RPG because there is no Intelligence attribute, or because some glitchy dialogue has a guard calling you the new College recruit when you've become the archmage.

If the RPG genre is what it's made out to be in this thread, and others like it (I.E. Skyrim doesn't qualify as an RPG), then the genre has been in stagnation since the beginning.

Let me fix the thread title for you:

Why is Oblivion a great RPG & a not so great TES game?

1. No, new character = new story
2. Levelling up your weapons in Skyrim can mean victory or defeat. Levelling up your weapons on BO, yeah it can mean victory or defeat... in multiplayer. Your customised weapons in Multiplayer won't help you in the ever-so linear Campaign. It's so linear, you're even restricted to one or two routes to your next objective.
3. Skyrims story is a helluva lot more intricate than that of BO. How you can even compare the two is beyond me.

lol'd

I further proved it's stagnation?

I think you need to explain how it is a stagnant genre before throw accusations like that around

Not true.

1. As my character levels up he unlocks 'Perks' like Marathon. This means that he's become better conditioned to run, and is more fit than the other guys on the battlefield. He can also unlock other Perks that differentiate him from the other 'characters' of other players (remember how you all like to say how perks in Skyrim are so important to defining your character now that attributes are gone?)

2. My character is what I play online. In Call of Duty I make a class, select a weapon, select perks, select an appearance, etc. just like in Skyrim. I can give him a name (most people name their class 'Sniper', I can name it 'Bob'). Remember how you guys often say that people who complain about Skyrim's lack of RPG mechanics just lack 'imagination' and you need to use a heck of a lot of imagination to RP in Skyrim? This is true for Black Ops too. If all that it takes ti make an RPG is imagination, then I can 'imagine' that my sniper class in Black Ops, named Bob Smith, is a farm boy from Kentucky with a wife at home and two kids, and all he wants to do is survive this [censored] long enough to get home and take his kids to Disneyland like he promised before being deployed overseas. I can even roleplay by being risk adverse, and not running into gunfire, or hanging back in safer corners of the map.