Dawnguard - No more Stage 4 Vampirism attack from Townpeople : V - Skyrim

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:53 am

I have read all of Ann rice books on vampires, and drinking blood does not make them weaker. As they get older they require less blood. And no one is pretending it doesn't make sense. Blood should enhance their powers make a vampire stronger and help them blend. Not drinking blood should make them weaker and look more like a monster and therefore not blend in.

I never said they grew weaker, I said that ancient blood-starved vampires in the Rice novels became monstrous.
(Or turned to stone.)

In Skyrim drinking blood technically also does not make you grow weaker.
The maluses to health/ stamina increase as you abstain from feeding, therefore it could be said its a two-way street.
Feeding makes you stronger in general, not feeding grants you some powers you otherwise would not have.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:20 pm

Have they already chosen the beta testers? If you don't get it, will they email you letting you know?

No, but there is a Beta discussion thread for questions like these.

Please use that thread.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:48 pm

Anne Rice vampires are not Elder Scrolls vampires. Do not compare the two. There are similarities, but not entirely.

Vampires in the Elder Scrolls originated from a sixually molested woman(Try censoring that, censor). Werewolves were created by a Daedric Deity known as Hircine. Bethesda mixed in folklore and added things into their own. Hircine is based off the Horned pagan god. And werewolves are a mixture of folklore and of course, some Native American lore as well. We cannot base ES vampires off of other franchises because ultimately, they have a sense of uniqueness to them.

Lets not get hasty here, Anne Rice's books were really good, and I think to some degree I think Bethesda could have gotten part of the Cyrodiilic vampire idea from them.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:29 pm

This

Wait wait wait, are you calling me a dang casual gamer *and others* because I like vampires how they should be and are irl movies and books and such? I am sure but vampires DRINK blood, that should NOT be a penilty at all, it just doesn't make any sense, they

Shame on Bethesda for not just copying/pasting vamps from other media! How DARE they make their own spin on it!

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:28 pm

That's the point.

You have 2 sides

Human<--------------------------------->Vampire

When you drink human blood it brings you closer to human, this farther away from vampire.

When you don't drink human blood the disease slowly takes over bringing you closer to vampire, thus bringing farther away from human.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:38 pm

Shame on Bethesda for not just copying/pasting vamps from other media! How DARE they make their own spin on it!

my fellow communist has the right idea

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:20 am

Well all the talk about Lore is pointless anyways. They can change how the system will work because these Vampire Lords are definitely not from a tribe we know so they could be more traditional in regards to feeding

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:57 am

Anne Rice vampires are not Elder Scrolls vampires. Do not compare the two. There are similarities, but not entirely.

Actually I wasn't the poster I was responding to made a reference.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:52 am

Lets not get hasty here, Anne Rice's books were really good, and I think to some degree I think Bethesda could have gotten part of the Cyrodiilic vampire idea from them.

I never dissed Anne Rice's books. I am fond of her work. But we cannot compare the vampires entirely. As I said, there are similarities.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:04 am

Anne Rice vampires are not Elder Scrolls vampires. Do not compare the two. There are similarities, but not entirely.

Vampires in the Elder Scrolls originated from a sixually molested woman(Try censoring that, censor). Werewolves were created by a Daedric Deity known as Hircine. Bethesda mixed in folklore and added things into their own. Hircine is based off the Horned pagan god. And werewolves are a mixture of folklore and of course, some Native American lore as well. We cannot base ES vampires off of other franchises because ultimately, they have a sense of uniqueness to them.

Okay, but where is the inspiration for vampires becoming weaker after feeding? I'm fine with them using blood to blend in and appear human, but obtaining powers because they haven't fed seems weird to me.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:43 pm

Shame on Bethesda for not just copying/pasting vamps from other media! How DARE they make their own spin on it!

Whats their "spin" on warriors or mages or dragons. Hell whats their spin werewolves they seem perfectly normal to me.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:34 am

If I was 15 years younger I would print a rofl emoticon.
movies? You get your idea of what a vampire is from movies?
There are http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Rice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_%28novel%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula books out there.
A movie by definition cannot do justice to vampirism, as it is action packed, has to drive onward, it has no time to go into lore.

I said books earlier

Because vampires are genetically altered by Clavicus Vile. While they may act like our real life folklore vampires, Bethesda added a twist to them, as most of their things are given.

For example, werewolves are suppose to transform every full moon, yet the members of the Circle are altered by a pact made by the Witches of Glenmoril.

Vampires of Cyrodiil are altered by Clavicus Vile. And Clavicus Vile always demands a price. And that is the price, backwards feeding. If a vampire wants to blend in, they must feed. But they lose their greater power. And if they want that greater power, they will lose their mortal appearance, and their weakness to fire and the sun will increase. You cannot have one without the other.

Oh ok so it even says it is backwards feeding and people know this ingame and outgame like here? I was trying to get across how backwards it was and it just seemed like no one ever got into vampire lore untill they got Oblivion or Skyrim :/

Shame on Bethesda for not just copying/pasting vamps from other media! How DARE they make their own spin on it!

Shame on you for just following what Beth says and not questioning it :smile:

Okay, but where is the inspiration for vampires becoming weaker after feeding? I'm fine with them using blood to blend in and appear human, but obtaining powers because they haven't fed seems weird to me.

That is what I want to know but sadly it will more or likley be explained by "its their game, they made it up blah blah blah deal with it" type of reply unlike real answers and we all know the lore W&V BUT some people want better answers cuz thats just like saying "it was in their brain"

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:01 pm

Being a vampire in Skyrim is MUCH easier already over Morrowind and especially Oblivion, the fact you can integrate with society at all and walk (although vunlerably) in daylight. I can understand why at level 4 vampirism (starving) people will attack you. Any truly hungry person in a room full of hamburgers is not going to behave or look rationally to those hamburgers, if those hamburgers had perception. Levels 3 or lower, however, are more collective, composed and can easily conceal their nature from others. I see no reason or need to change this. It's the closest thing to actually needing food I've seen in any Elder Scrolls game, albeit through a vampiric hunger.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:36 pm

OMG....-__-
I understand that regluar feeding would make you more human but how does it make sense it would make you weaker? In every other vampire film or movie out there I have seen the blood starved vampire is the insane one thus is not STRONGER for it in sense he gets more powers normally by feeding urself u get stronger not weaking, in the lore of this game they reverse that. I just still find it stupid so imo it IS stupid, you don't have to think that but I do cuz thats not how I have been raised on vampires all my life.

AKA: The lore of vampires in this game TO ME does NOT make perfect sense, if you all want to go with it and play nice than so be it.

Agreed, lore doesn't excuse bad gameplay... really looking forward to seeing how much the regular vampires have been changed.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:19 am

That's the point.

You have 2 sides

Human<--------------------------------->Vampire

When you drink human blood it brings you closer to human, this farther away from vampire.

When you don't drink human blood the disease slowly takes over bringing you closer to vampire, thus bringing farther away from human.

Then humans have nothing to fear. Since a real vampire would not want to be closer to being human. So why are they attacking these poor vampires who just wants to keep there powers and not drink human blood?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:55 pm

I much prefer it this way. Thanks for making it so not everyone drops what they're doing and charges at me like morons.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 pm

I never dissed Anne Rice's books. I am fond of her work. But we cannot compare the vampires entirely. As I said, there are similarities.

I was kind of kidding, and that is what I was saying. There are similarities between the two so maybe Bethesda saw that as a cool mechanic to have for vampires.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:03 am

Okay, but where is the inspiration for vampires becoming weaker after feeding? I'm fine with them using blood to blend in and appear human, but obtaining powers because they haven't fed seems weird to me.

I don't think there was an inspiration. Just a gameplay mechanic that they considered to be balanced, and then they added lore to it. Like werewolves having their own eternity and patron.

I said books earlier

Oh ok so it even says it is backwards feeding and people know this ingame and outgame like here? I was trying to get across how backwards it was and it just seemed like no one ever got into vampire lore untill they got Oblivion or Skyrim :/

Shame on you for just following what Beth says and not questioning it :smile:

That is what I want to know but sadly it will more or likley be explained by "its their game, they made it up blah blah blah deal with it" type of reply unlike real answers and we all know the lore W&V BUT some people want better answers cuz thats just like saying "it was in their brain"

Wait, what? I don't understand what you just said. Your trying to understand why backwards feeding is the way it is?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:25 pm

Okay, but where is the inspiration for vampires becoming weaker after feeding? I'm fine with them using blood to blend in and appear human, but obtaining powers because they haven't fed seems weird to me.

I don't think there was an inspiration. Just a gameplay mechanic that they considered to be balanced, and then they added lore to it. Like werewolves having their own eternity and patron.

I said books earlier

Oh ok so it even says it is backwards feeding and people know this ingame and outgame like here? I was trying to get across how backwards it was and it just seemed like no one ever got into vampire lore untill they got Oblivion or Skyrim :/

Shame on you for just following what Beth says and not questioning it :smile:

That is what I want to know but sadly it will more or likley be explained by "its their game, they made it up blah blah blah deal with it" type of reply unlike real answers and we all know the lore W&V BUT some people want better answers cuz thats just like saying "it was in their brain"

Wait, what? I don't understand what you just said. Your trying to understand why backwards feeding is the way it is?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:13 pm

Agreed, lore doesn't excuse bad gameplay... really looking forward to seeing how much the regular vampires have been changed.

Agreed, I really can't wait to see them overhauled in the trailer it looks like you see a dawnguard fighting one in daylight and to me he looks more monster like and well he is out in daylight sooo kinda makes me wonder

Then humans have nothing to fear. Since a real vampire would not want to be closer to being human. So why are they attacking these poor vampires who just wants to keep there powers and not drink human blood?

Lol

I much prefer it this way. Thanks for making it so not everyone drops what they're doing and charges at me like morons.

*charges at you with a pointy stick*

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:30 am

I don't think there was an inspiration. Just a gameplay mechanic that they considered to be balanced, and then they added lore to it. Like werewolves having their own eternity and patron.

Wait, what? I don't understand what you just said. Your trying to understand why backwards feeding is the way it is?

Ya basicly, backwards doesn't make sense to me or others thus why it is called "backwards" to begin with

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:12 pm

Million dollar question. If I'm a stage 4 (haven't fed) then I get the vampire lord perk which increases when I feed will I then turn into a stage 1 once I transform back into myself after feeding as a vampire lord?

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:26 pm

Vampires of Cyrodiil are altered by Clavicus Vile. And Clavicus Vile always demands a price. And that is the price, backwards feeding. If a vampire wants to blend in, they must feed. But they lose their greater power. And if they want that greater power, they will lose their mortal appearance, and their weakness to fire and the sun will increase. You cannot have one without the other.

I feel that the Vampires in Dawnguard will get stronger by feeding as hinted at by the Vampire Lord skill tree. In the dawnguard trailer there is a shrine to Molag Bal in the Castle Volkihar . Molag Bal being the creator of vampires may give you some buffs if you have Molag Bal's Mace or you worship him in Castle Volkihar

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:15 am

Ya basicly, backwards doesn't make sense to me or others thus why it is called "backwards" to begin with

Many things in the Elder Scrolls do not make sense. But the backwards feeding was explained. Many times.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:47 am

Many things in the Elder Scrolls do not make sense. But the backwards feeding was explained. Many times.

I know Vile created the Cyrodiilic strain of vampires, but does lore state who made the pact with him that led to this? Given his tendency to mess with people in his deals, I could imagine him making a pact to weaken vampires with a vampire hunter so that they were easier for him to kill, but made it so that they could blend in so that it was harder for him to find them. That would be a perfect explanation for their game mechanics, but I haven't seen anything declaring this as how it came about. Have we ever learned the exact details of their origins?

Also, does anyone know how Molag Bal reacted to Vile messing with his creations?