you have made a very good point

What you said at first straight away points out how the Light is just better in a 1 on 1, since Lights operate alone very well, and that is "in their element". Heavies rely on support, like you said they are not a loner build. Who says the Heavy will even see the Light in the 1v1. Although it is indeed true that this is unlikely.

Moving on from 1v1s, where you point is that Heavies excel in groups. The thing with Light's is that they are not limited to just one vantage point. The main real point of Lights is to pick off people one by one, not charging in or camping in one position. They are very good at hit and run attacks. Plus, Lights excel in groups aswell, with people who might not be lights. Remember my previous points on distractions, Lights work best with distractions, and with the engineer, the Light could pull the Heavy into the Turret's line of fire. Now the turret might not kill the heavy, but while the turret is, the Light moves back around jumping from buildings and kills the heavy from a different spot while it is focused on the turret.

This isn't a black and white argument - ENVIRONMENT is a key factor in this, especially assuming they're at equal skill level. If you're in a cramped corridor, and a heavy faces off with a light, the heavy wins hands down. In a place with many vantage points and cover, plus a high-ground advantage, the light would stand a fair chance of winning, or at least whittling away at the heavy's health a fair bit. But class also plays a part - a light soldier that specialises in grenades vs. a heavy medic that specialises in reviving teammates, the light has it made - the heavy simply isn't sufficiently equipped for that kind of combat.

There are far too many variables to feed into the situation to come out with a proper answer. I voted heavy regardless, however.

ya but with the speed of the lights when hes waiting.....theyre moving so fast the heavies wouldnt be able to keep track of them and the lights would appear out of random spots shot the heavy and boom hes gone again then the light could keep doin that till the heavy is dead. you know what im sayin???

i sincerely doubt the lights will be moving at such a high speed that they can cross the map before the heavies can turn and pull their trigger...

there will probably not be a huge gap in the speeds of a heavy or a light. heavies run a little slower than you would run in other games. they wont make the lights godly fast

Although he makes them sound faster than they are, the gap would have to be significant to pay off for the lower health, MUCH better weapons and less abilities.

if the speed isnt very different, than neither would the health. the weapons for the heavy make up for the fact that the lights have access to higher ground

Well said i guess. But the high ground thing better be significant because without a large difference larger and better weapons may end up as the Heavies ace up their sleeves

Well said i guess. But the high ground thing better be significant because without a large difference larger and better weapons may end up as the Heavies ace up their sleeves

as far as i've seen on this forum, people are very interested in making those overpowered heavy guns very weak.
while still hanging on to every damn negative the heavies have, and every frigging positive the lights have

Are you saying that people seem to want to weaken Heavies as much as possible, while trying to make Lights as strong as they can? If so, then yeah. I've noticed that for awhile now.

that's exactly what i'm saying, and if it happens, the heavies will be seen as freaks of brink, and will only be played by people who are up for a TOUGH challenge, or like to play a big tough guy

No no no no no. Do not make heavies as weak as possible. And do not make lights as strong as possible. That just ruins the game to make one body type superior to another. Each body type needs to have its pros and cons. Don't make heavies the worst body type and make lights the best. Make all the body types equal and excel in certain situations so it pretty much evens out.

well, it really depends on the player.
think of heavies as a tank; powerful, have a lot of health, and can make a big boom.
now, think of lights as foot soldiers; small, fast, and agile.
Either one could win this battle, if the light knows what to do, it could skirt around, dodging fire, jumping, rolling, whatever, and eventually come up behind the tank and shoot it, or stab it. but, if the tank knows what its doing, it can slowly move itself towards the light, and eventually corner it, or slow it down enough to kill it.

so, it really does depend on the player

yes, we know that by now.
you can't really balance players.
we are talking about the types and weapons available to those types. not about types and weapons controlled by players :shakehead:

but you cant predict how they will play. There's no given instructions for playing a light. You dont buy the game, and the manual tells you, "to play a light, you have to..."
the classes (hopefully) will be evenly matched, so you can't really predict an outcome. If you have a heavy with a gat/LMG going up against a light with a pistol, the heavys gonna win. if you have a heavy with an AR against a light with a grenade, the light is going to win. there's thousands of possibities here. You have to account for the environment and the guns, as well as even what direction they are facing when they start fighting.

<_< can you grasp how many situations there are possible?
it's just a standard discussion board where you are likely to find every weakness of a bodytype dragged kicking and screaming into the light.
and where you can see the advantages/disadvantages weighed up against eachother


and ofcourse where you can find wich people are knuckleheads thinking a light is some kind of Neo(matrix) that can dodge bullets :banghead:

yeah, i see what you mean.
but you're litterally just :banghead: if you think you're gonna find an answer, because the classes will all be even. the heavy will have the health and gun advantage, and the light will have the speed and cover advantage. The battles will comee down to PvP, because thats how they designers wanted to make the game.

ofcourse we're not gonna find an answer, that's what discussions are all about
apart from finding out who is open for other viewpoints and who will keep ranting blindly about how much better his preferred type is

It just seems like some people who wanna play Light, see the disadvantages that the body type has, and instead of accepting them and learning to adapt, they look for things that can cause a problem for Lights (mainly Heavies) and want to dismantle them. It's like people want the speed and mobility of a Light, but they want to to play them like a Heavy (out on the front lines, going head to head with players) and when they see that this is very unlikely, they whine and look for ways to make it happen. They want all the advantages, and none of the disadvantages.

i expect that's how kids want to play, eh
you'd expect grown ups to be a bit more mature and weigh up all the advantages and disadvantages before choosing, instead of choosing a type and then start to remove all the disadvantages while still adding some to the other types

well, yeah. thats what everybody wants, a "perfect" class, but they're not gonna get it. They have to learn to accept it and move on. No class is perfect, and every class has multiple disadvantages that the other classes (if their smart) will exploit.

An excellent point as usual. In one large group it seems that the heavies could streamroller through any opposition. Lights however can have multiple groups and shift around easier allowing for more groups. You can have multiply groups of heavies but unless they are close they won't be able to easily support each other.



Agreed lights act best in a wolf pack manner.



Envoirment yes important but since the Light is the most able to utilize it in an effective manner. Variables is indeed the name of the game and this game has a truly stagger amount.

This debate is nothing more that favorism and speculation until the game comes out then we can settle it like men.




If the lights are comparable to the Scout and Heavies are comparable to well the heavy.

Heavies have more
HP
GUNS
ABILITIES

Lights get
SPEED
Expanded movement options

They need to be a big enough gap to make either worth doing. Not to mention the Medium is somewhere in between.

Its like the difference between a weightlifter and a runner.




Now that is just favorism speaking. In a team based game the people who work together are freaks, yea right. Forgive me for all heavy fans but it will likely be easier to play a heavy since you are just more stronger. Someone likened this to MAG where everyone wanted to be light at first but wanted to be ridiciously tough so now they just play heavy.



Yes yes I can and its staggering.

This debate is nothing more that favorism and speculation until the game comes out then we can settle it like men.

I very well know the weakness of the light and accept it along with the benefits. Stop throwing all the light people into the idiot, anger, commando knife, neo wannabe etc etc ad naseam that you keep doing.

My point was that the complaints come almost exclusively from those who wanna play Light. Heavy players (and medium) seem perfectly content.