Idea to balance fast travel : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:27 am

Players using the fast-travel feature a lot are not the same players who are concerned with "immersion".

That is true... But thats why I suggested the idea of your exact situation happening, being at a shrine and having to travel to a dungeon across the map, and youre out of fast travels because your character is too "tired", forcing them to run and find a bed, resulting in all the extra content that casual gamer would never see. Just like they had to do with many of the other in game chores.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:10 am

None of what was in the link was quest related but the top 10 or so.... theres at least 100 or more other random encounters that arent just enemies underneath that. I never said I know whats best. Dont be a fan boy and put words in my mouth as if Im attacking your child. The game has no limit of fast travelers. I can easily magically fast travel to a location 20 yards away from undiscovered location and the game rewards you as you discovered this new area. I just want to add some immersion to FT, thats all... Im not wanting to get rid of it, I have to keep saying that because most of the people here dont read my op, I just want it to be more immersive.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, i'm pointing out what you're pretty much saying as selfish and adding a rule ANYONE right now can do at any given time. I can go on skyrim right now and do exactly what you said, but do I want to? NO I DON'T!1

Why? because I find your suggestion very unappealing and takes away immersion.

Ok, make a new game save file and record yourself and upload on youtube after leaving helgen for the first time level 1 or 2 and show us fast traveling to solitude immediately cause I'd like to see it considering it can't be DONE at all.

I had to bust my hide walking there encountering all sorts of enemies just to reach it. I didn't fast travel there like you're suggesting cause it can't be done at all.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:52 am

Just like needing to run to the city to find a potion for cure disease? Or needing to run to the city to find more arrows for your bow? Just like needing to run to the city and buy soul gems? Just like needing to run to the city to smith weapons? And so on and so on...

Why did Bethesda not just be able to one click and do all these things? Because its makes no sense, and kills immersion. But with fast travel, all the sudden its ok. Why did they take the ways to travel in Morrowind out, and not add it in Oblivion(besides carriages), and add one click travel, FT? To make the casual gamer happy... probably

All of the things you listed are gameplay-related. And since you can fast-travel to the cities, if you find those things time consuming... you get the idea (or I hope you do).

Fast-travel, on the other hand, isn't something you have to do. Some people use it, and they have a variety of reasons for doing so. You don't have to use it, and if you're concerned about "immersion", you probably won't. So why do you feel the need to dictate how other people play their game?

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:24 am

I've been playing "RPGs" on and off ... mostly off for the past 10 or so years ... since I bought a NES and later x386 computer.

Most of the "RPGs I played on the NES, such as FF1, Ultima, had some sort of potion or spell ... available to the mages in your party ... that allowed you to make a quick exit from "dungeons" and "travel" to at least the nearest city. Anyway, "fast travel" type mechanisms have been present since the first video game RPGs. The only difference in Beth's implementation is that there is no "cost", e.g. gold, magic, involved.

There were a number of valid "game play" related reasons for these spells/potions and at least some of these remain valid today.

And even if these weren't valid today, I'd expect many players to complain if "fast travel" mechanisms were removed because it's a function that many players have come to expect.

There is no complaint about Beth's implementation of "fast travel" that would be valid for many ... or perhaps most ... players. There's nothing forcing you to "fast travel" and there's nothing, e.g. "cost", that might impede your ability to do so when and if you choose ... good design.

Iin my opinion, "fast travel" is fine the way it is.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:31 am

I would be turned off by such an addition you're suggesting WeBB15. Out of all the possible ideas to suggest for skyrim or Fallout, this has to be the worst one that would actually piss alot of people off. Fast traveling like I and others have said have limiters where you must find the location by walking and exploring before using FT ability to and from this.

Guess you never played Morrowind.

I am actually trying to help casual gamers like you by keeping FT in. Like some one said, the game would be much better if one click was completely gone, besides ways in how MW implemented it(spells and stilt striders).

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:25 am

All of the things you listed are gameplay-related. And since you can fast-travel to the cities, if you find those things time consuming... you get the idea (or I hope you do).

Fast-travel, on the other hand, isn't something you have to do. Some people use it, and they have a variety of reasons for doing so. You don't have to use it, and if you're concerned about "immersion", you probably won't. So why do you feel the need to dictate how other people play their game?

Lol , traveling is now not gameplay related? . Youve made my point. I'm not dictating it on anybody, because its still optional even in my idea.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:20 am

Guess you never played Morrowind.

I am actually trying to help casual gamers like you by keeping FT in. Like some one said, the game would be much better if one click was completely gone, besides ways in how MW implemented it(spells and stilt striders).

You aren't trying to help anyone. You're trying to force people to play a specific way, because you don't think that they're playing the right way.

Lol , traveling is now not gameplay related? . Youve made my point. I'm not dictating it on anybody, because its still optional even in my idea.

If you really don't understand the difference between running out of arrows and needing to find a source of arrows and arbitrarily requiring that someone find a bed before they can travel anywhere else... Well, actually, I guess that would explain how you've managed to continue posting on this thread as if you haven't understood anyone's replies.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:28 pm

You aren't trying to help anyone. You're trying to force people to play a specific way, because you don't think that they're playing the right way.

Now youre just mad, lol.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:55 am

Now youre just mad, lol.

I'm more confused than mad. I really would love to understand how you think that forcing people to play the way you want them to is "helping" them.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:34 am

Guess you never played Morrowind.

I am actually trying to help casual gamers like you by keeping FT in. Like some one said, the game would be much better if one click was completely gone, besides ways in how MW implemented it(spells and stilt striders).

You right I didn't, because I didn't have a PC nor an Xbox to play it. While I have a PC that can play morrowind I won't because graphically it svcks for today standards and quite frankly the animations for attacking is god awful.

But i do know how morrowind travel system works, and the only way you can fast travel in morrowind is on the Silt Strider arthropod
but the way skyrim/oblivion fast travel works is much easier and better for immersion cause quite frankly I do not feel like being forced to walk to my destination and back every single time and limiting it by bed rest or endurance is dumb and no one wants it.

Oh and please do NOT label me as casual or hardcoe. I've been gaming for 20 years and have played some of the most challenging games of my time. I don't need you to tell me how to play or to give me some label like "hur hur casual".

I'm a gamer, I play whatever damn game I want with my money. Whether it's Mario, Pokemon, call of duty or Portal or anything. I don't limit myself to what to play and how to play. If I want to play fallout 3 using only shotguns or pistols I'll do it without you or anyone's advice.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:19 pm

You right I didn't, because I didn't have a PC nor an Xbox to play it. While I have a PC that can play morrowind I won't because graphically it svcks for today standards ...

I stopped there, sorry bud. Your input has literally no value. And even people who disagree with me on this idea, will agree with that lol

I'm more confused than mad. I really would love to understand how you think that forcing people to play the way you want them to is "helping" them.

Well... read post #1... and having to sleep for every 10 or whatever number of fast travels is hardly forcing anything. Its not any more force than someone to sleep to level up like in Oblviion.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:26 am

I would be turned off by such an addition you're suggesting WeBB15. Out of all the possible ideas to suggest for skyrim or Fallout, this has to be the worst one that would actually piss alot of people off. Fast traveling like I and others have said have limiters where you must find the location by walking and exploring before using FT ability to and from this.

No, it would not, because no one wants it removed. Things that can be used without restrictions are instant win. However, without loss is there no learning and with no learning is there no fun.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:28 am

Well... read post #1... and having to sleep for every 10 or whatever number of fast travels is hardly forcing anything. Its not any more force than someone to sleep to level up like in Oblviion.

I think you're confusing "help" with "forcibly educate". And since you are not an accepted arbiter of everything that is good and worth doing in the game, you don't get to do that.

However, without loss is there no learning and with no learning is there no fun.

That makes no sense. At all. Nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:35 pm

Just like needing to run to the city to find a potion for cure disease? Or needing to run to the city to find more arrows for your bow? Just like needing to run to the city and buy soul gems? Just like needing to run to the city to smith weapons? And so on and so on...

Why did Bethesda not just be able to one click and do all these things? Because its makes no sense, and kills immersion. But with fast travel, all the sudden its ok. Why did they take the ways to travel in Morrowind out, and not add it in Oblivion(besides carriages), and add one click travel? To make the casual gamer happy... probably

Yes, let us go back to the halcyon glory days of Morrowind, when things were so much harder and not "dumbed down" for those pitiful "casuals". :rolleyes:

OMG! I'm out at a dungeon, and I desperately need a Cure Disease potion! Drama! hardcoe tension!

...oh, wait. No. I Mark (with spell, scroll, potion, or item). I Divine or Almsivi Intervention (with spell, potion, scroll, or item). I then take various mass transit options (strider, boat, etc) to the town or home of my choosing, picking up whatever things I feel like. I then Recall (spell, scroll, potion, item) back to exactly where I was. Even deep in a dungeon, unlike in Oblivion, Fallout 3, or Skyrim.

Yes, it took a little more setup in Morrowind (since you first had to get a source of those spell effects). But once you had done that setup, you could bounce all over the freakin' place.

The deployment of "dumbing down" and the generic (stupid) "casual" insults, reveals your true point of view - not actually trying to suggest improvements, but just railing against whatever bits of modern gaming that you happen to dislike. Having seen you use those words, there's no longer a reason to discuss the topic - there's nothing actually here to discuss, just empty words.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:26 am

I think you're confusing "help" with "forcibly educate". And since you are not an accepted arbiter of everything that is good and worth doing in the game, you don't get to do that.

Educating and helping go hand in hand. "Forcibly" is your opinion, and a redundant one. Its a forum, were all accepted arbiters. If you disagree, then everything you said is null and void just as my words are.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:19 pm

I stopped there, sorry bud. Your input has literally no value. And even people who disagree with me on this idea, will agree with that lol

Ah I see: you don't care about gamers at all, you just want to suggest self imposed restrictions I can already do now without needing the game to be changed.

So because I choose not to play morrowind NOW that I have a PC that can and won't because of things i do not like my input has no value but you're all fine and dandy to suggest a change of functionality that will piss me off and others? Good job man

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:23 am

Educating and helping go hand in hand. "Forcibly" is your opinion, and a redundant one. Its a forum, were all accepted arbiters. If you disagree, then everything you said is null and void just as my words are.

Wrong. Non-forcible educating would be asking the developers to put a message saying, "Hey, if you fast-travel, you'll miss out on a ton of fun stuff," at the beginning of the game. You're asking them to take a functioning optional feature, and punish people who use it so that they can learn the true glory of your playstyle.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:23 am

OMG! I'm out at a dungeon, and I desperately need a Cure Disease potion! Drama! hardcoe tension!

Yes, that was awesome. It gave you the feeling of being really in a different world. No 911 call, no taxis, nothing like it, but you had to think to survive.

Now it is like this: Ah, Drama! ... No, wait, ... fast travel, I have no time to deal with drama. Zoom back to Whiterun. Then, shut up Nazeem, run to the shop, shut up Sigurd, and no Acardia, I do not look pale, buy potion, zoom back. Ahhhhhh...

It is not fun, only bliss.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:21 am

Yes, let us go back to the halcyon glory days of Morrowind, when things were so much harder and not "dumbed down" for those pitiful "casuals". :rolleyes:

OMG! I'm out at a dungeon, and I desperately need a Cure Disease potion! Drama! hardcoe tension!

...oh, wait. No. I Mark (with spell, scroll, potion, or item). I Divine or Almsivi Intervention (with spell, potion, scroll, or item). I then take various mass transit options (strider, boat, etc) to the town or home of my choosing, picking up whatever things I feel like. I then Recall (spell, scroll, potion, item) back to exactly where I was. Even deep in a dungeon, unlike in Oblivion, Fallout 3, or Skyrim.

Yes, it took a little more setup in Morrowind (since you first had to get a source of those spell effects). But once you had done that setup, you could bounce all over the freakin' place.

Mark and Recall alone, made MW deeper than Skyrims FT, because it makes sense and immerses you as you learned the earned the points to use the spell, spell, and set the spell. There is no drama in Skyrim. No action and consequence.

Waypoints to items and discovering a location one time by accident, or by some book, and being able to one click travel whenever you want, how many times you want, is not deep or immersive.

I hate when people use those terms too, but using the term simplification/ streamlined infers that in a positive manner, when in really it isnt. Were losing content, which results in less value. But the graphics and animations have improved which obviously matters to most of the audience(look above)

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:51 am

Yes, that was awesome. It gave you the feeling of being really in a different world. No 911 call, no taxis, nothing like it, but you had to think to survive.

Now it is like this: Ah, Drama! ... No, wait, ... fast travel, I have no time to deal with drama. Zoom back to Whiterun. Then, shut up Nazeem, run to the shop, shut up Sigurd, and no Acardia, I do not look pale, buy potion, zoom back. Ahhhhhh...

It is not fun, only bliss.

I like that you cut out the part of the post where Kiralyn2000 went on to describe how it worked in Morrowind. For your benefit:

...oh, wait. No. I Mark (with spell, scroll, potion, or item). I Divine or Almsivi Intervention (with spell, potion, scroll, or item). I then take various mass transit options (strider, boat, etc) to the town or home of my choosing, picking up whatever things I feel like. I then Recall (spell, scroll, potion, item) back to exactly where I was. Even deep in a dungeon, unlike in Oblivion, Fallout 3, or Skyrim.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:42 am

I feel like a lot of people lose a main part of the game(exploring, random encounters) by only using fast travel as a means to get to a location. Hence, why I, and others, feel like it would provide more immersion and value to the game to NOT fast travel. And the infinte amount of FT makes for unbalance. and/or breaks immersion/realism, in which much of the Skyrim strives for.

And the only real argument in why FT should be unlimited, is because most people dont have enough time to be walking everywhere, understandably, as I also have that issue. The only real idea Ive heard are interrupted random encounters, but essentially that would defeat the purpose of FT, and/or the chance to lose health/ endurance at the end of the travel risking a tough fight with an unexpecting enemy, but with most people traveling to cities/ locations theyve already been, so that wont make any sense.

So my idea is... You are only able to have a limited amount of fast travels before the next time you sleep. The number could be as low as 1 or 2, up to 5 times to fast travel, before you are too "tired", and have to find a bed. It would add a simple solution deduced by realism. It would also result in making sleeping immersive and valuable, besides just as a leveling bonus.

Of course, this could be remedied in a "hardcoe" mode, where you need to eat/drink/sleep more often to sustain health and endurance.

So, once again, because some gamers are unable to control themselves and their gaming (see all the crying about overpowered perks and crafting) we need the game to put limits in for them so they can play.

Really?

Is everyone around here 9 years old.

Grow up and make the choices in this game...or don't.
But asking the game to do it for you because you're unable is just childish, immature, and NOT what Bethesda designed. Thank goodness. Because I like choices.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:18 pm

[sarcasm off]

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:03 am

Wrong. Non-forcible educating would be asking the developers to put a message saying, "Hey, if you fast-travel, you'll miss out on a ton of fun stuff," at the beginning of the game. You're asking them to take a functioning optional feature, and punish people who use it so that they can learn the true glory of your playstyle.

Has nothing to do with playstyle.... Random encounters are content that people who frequently use FT dont see, because the game forces you to use it by putting in across the map where casual gamers dont have the willpower to just walk... But you cant blame them, Bethesda has made the system where FT is available right away, and can use it whenever you want. Such as I.

Bottom line, is I dont want it removed or necessarily use my idea exactly, but make it immersive, at least where you have to unlock the feature later in-game, by learning a spell, or provide a quest behind it, or something! if youre just going to make it unlimited infinite ability from the beginning, thats just the easy, cheap way to implementing a feature. And its "dumbing down "from what used to be in morrowind.

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:03 am

ah so WeBB15 is really a morrowind fan boy and likes how that game worked over oblivion and skyrim. The truth reveals itself.

This thread is not about helping it's just trying to change it back to morrowind so that forces us to travel the way we did in acient times.

This suggestion is like telling someone to not ride a plane to another state and drive a car to another state cause there's alot more immersion and side seeing you can do. lol

» Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:24 am

I like that you cut out the part of the post where Kiralyn2000 went on to describe how it worked in Morrowind. For your benefit:

No, here, for your benefit: :violin: