It doesn't affect me what you choose to do. It does affect me what I choose to do. If I want to take the Smithing or Enchanting Perks, it will trivialize the game and scales out of control. If I had a way of correcting this outside of, not taking those perks or choosing to not progress, (make the difficulty higher to compensate) I would not have a problem. Further, it just seems like good practice that things that are so imbalanced should only exist as exploits, cheats, or modifications. The game does not have items that turn on God Mode or weapons that kill everything in a hit, this is no different.

If you got alchemy and enchanting maxed and perked but you dont loop then the best you can get is the same level as a maxed smither with perk.

This is totaly fine, because someone who didnt touch smithing and went just alchemy and enchanting can still reach the same level as a pc who only maxed and perked one tree. You get nearly the same benefits but you have to get 1 more crafting tree than a smither and cant make your own weapons/armor or upgrade enchanted weapons.

This is the way it was designed - crafting gear and pots were there to let different build have the ability to upgrade they`re own weapons an armor as long as they were not enchanted. The problem starts when a fully maxed smither uses those same gear and pots and goes overboard.

With gear and pots a maxed smither made his weapon and armor x2 times better than what it should be making the game trivial. Now your weapons do to much dmg and nearly any armor hits the damage cap making the light/heavy armor trees useless. Once you yourself are making a whole three useless its just past the limit of what should be done.

Simple fix:
- cap smithing at the level of 100 skill and the perks needed ( 200% ),
- cap enchanting at the level of 100 skill and all perks maxed,
- dont let alchemy/enchanting combo loop itself.

Nothing is nerfed, but the game actualy has some challenge now and still benefits those that use all they resources.
It dosnt trivialize skill trees and it lets you have the feeling off achiving the status of a power house if use all the resources accesible without intentionaly limiting yourself.

Seriously what's wrong with the community? I merely gave my opinion on something and moments later i get to be crucified? Why do people act like i am acting against them? Can't we discuss a topic like gentleman?

Please...

You're chosing to use smithing, alchemy and enchanting to over power and unbalance the game and blaming Bethesda for unbalancing the game. Just because they gave you the freedom to use these exploits to overpower weapons and armor doesn't mean you have to use them.

If you click the links in my signature, you'll see those four mods have a combined 18,034 unique downloads. They're the most endorsed hunger/thirst/sleep mod and power armor overhaul on the Nexus for both Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. I'm not a professional developer, but I do know how to make changes that a lot of people like.

maybe you do not realize that your very first post was made in a way as if you spoke for everyone.

You did not say "I think that this needds to be changed" or "Can we get this improved". You said, "do it the way i want", in what is essentially an open letter to the developers. The reactions you are getting from the community may be taken as a hint that you don't speak for everyone. Perhaps that is what you're seeing in this thread. If that is so, then there is nothing "wrong with the community". Rather there is something wrong with the attitude that says you can take it upon yourself to speak for the community when in reality, you're only voicing an opinion. Personally, I feel that that is the problem.

if you want to just voice opinion, use terms that indicate it's just your opinion instead of how you've decided the way things should be for everyone. Just a little advice.

I feel like my post may have come across a little too sharp. For that I apologize.

That 60 number I threw out there was just a random average number. It had no bearing on your character. Note that I have no problem with how you or anybody else plays. Nothing you do to or with your char affects me or my feelings towards you.

My point is that just grinding a skill to 100 doesn't necessarily contribute to becoming overpowered. One can easily create a powerful character without grinding. Thus grinding is not the issue.

EDIT : I have reread your previous post as well as my own. I will be the first to admit that the older I get the more of a failing compression level I seem to be nearing with each passing year. But I can't help but misunderstand where your comments lie with my post. I feel that my previous post was interpreted differently than it was intended.

Bare in mind I am easily confused.

Using the rationale of 'the game lets me do it, so therefore I will do it, even though I understand the consequences are that I will be too strong to enjoy the game', is exactly the same as 'I will drive my car as fast as it will go even though I know I won't be able to control it and I will probably kill myself'.

Perhaps we should speed-limit cars to 5km per hour as well...otherwise a lot of gamers posting on these threads could be dangers to themselves and others.

It's a personal choice to make your character overpowered...blaming the developers for a player's personal choices, if they are poor, is silly.

so to make the game better for YOU, i should be prevented from doing something i want to do( i don't actually grind daggers, or anything else for that matter, just not my style) yeah that totally seems fair and balanced.

your demanding that the developers of the game nerf an aspect of a game, that you can easily avoid with personal choice and free will, that would negatively affect other people who like or are happy with what you dislike.

by saying that playing the game in the way you stated you think is wrong, you are saying that the people who enjoy that aspect are playing the game wrong, and if you had the power (one of three wishes you could say) to change this game its clear you would make the game so that smithing, etc, was nerfed. there for you would be forcing other people to play in a way that they don't want to, or restricting them.

that is how others, perhaps not all, are interpreting your perspective.

Yeah, I agree. I have tens of thousands of dowloads for a large game project too, that took thousands of hours of my research, development, skinning, and playtesting time, over three year's effort.

That doesn't make me a game designer. It makes me pretty good at making a popular third party add-on for an existing game- just like you.

As I see it is that it was easier for you and me to see what people might want after we saw what was offered (or missing, or done wrong, etc) in the as-sold game, not that we could automatically come up with the as-sold game premise and design. I agree with that point. Being good at third party add-on like you and I doesn't mean that we could- or that we couldn't, actually- design a very popular game. It's a different thing entirely from what we have done, and being good at what we have done doesn't gaurantee success in the other arena- but that also doesn't mean that either you or I couldn't accomplish it, either. So I disagree with the notion that says "Some of you armchair game designers need to come to terms with the fact that for all you might think you know, you would not be able to make a game that appeals to a large variety of people", myself.

It's like saying "You can paint a car really well but you could never drive it well". The logic has a large hole!

Maybe using all 3 skills in unison shouldn't be quite so powerful? Enchanting is really powerful with the +40% damage enchants you can put on gear. If you use those damage enchants after smithing some gear with + smithing potions, +smithing gear, and having 100 in Smithing it is crazy OP.

Granted by doing this you are basically creating some fo the most legendary items ever known in all of Tamriel but it still seems a little powerful.

ON the other hands, we have always had to make our balance through self restraint in TES so this is no different.

I have actually at least attempted to build a full game with a team of modders and semi-professionals, and it is a very different thing from modding. I have a lot of respect for professional game developers.

The kinds of changes the rebalance crowd are proposing though, the changes that doewnskitty thinks we're unqualified to make, are just tweaks to the existing system, they're just mods whether they're something you download via the Nexus, or in an official patch. And there are plenty of people like you and I on this forum that have shown that that sort of thing is well within our capacity.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1335397-my-smithing-experiment-or-how-many-daggers-to-100/


everyone in this and every other "nerf this" or "this is OP" thread should read this.

the OP is certainly just one of many who decry the powerful combination of these skills. in the past we have seen BGS remove whole aspects of a system if not skills themselves because some people complained that the presence of those exploits forced them to exploit them, or grind. or that the mere existence of an exploit = a bad game. To which i counter by refering to the whole soul trap combination to spells in morrowind, which pretty much made gameplay like a whole new game itself.

some times exploits, even if they are over powered and gamebreaking should not be removed or nerfed just because they exist and make the game easy. because they are also fun for many people.

some of the previous contributers to this thread mention that they make mods, and also claim they know what the majority of people like and therefore validates their opinion :/, mods are good for people who have issues such as the OP because they are optional and don't force changes down the throats of every one else.

its the main reason i suspect that the bethesda has continued to not implement mods [such as necessities of morrowind, neccessities of Oblivion] into the core game itself simply because as mods those aspects allow people to CHOOSE to limit themselves, or CHOOSE to make themselves more powerful. while keeping the core game itself in a state that is inbetween. which unfortunatly seems to eventually make every one mad [my self included] in some way or form no matter what.

Is it not actually what you expected it to be?
This is my take on it:

Smithing: If I create a "Legendary" blade. I expect a blade that will live up to it's title. A blade that people would kill to have! This isn't just a run of mill blade. No. This is a carefully created masterpiece that has the potential to do bad or good, depending on who uses it. But who uses it, is entirely a different matter.

Alchemy: The botanical knowledge of the individual would be immense! I'd fully expect a Master Alchemist to know how to create a volatile poison, or life saving elixir out of nothing but a Mushroom, piece of tree bark and a shoe lace! It's about practice and forethought in what you're trying to accomplish. Yes, this means that items you will make -SHALL- be powerful. It goes without saying.

Enchanting: Not a master on the subject, but when I bestow a weapon with the ability to boil the very blood in an opponents veins, freeze their flesh to the bone etc etc.. or enhance an ordinary (or Legendary) item. I'd also expect there to be a lot of power behind it.

In a game like Skyrim. You'd be a bit of a fool to assume that these skills wouldn't make you in the slightest bit powerful. I mean, on top of having the ability to 'shout' fire and 'shout' people off cliffs or to become invulnerable. I didn't think so many people would be upset about a simple sword or a potent potion/poison would cause so much hassle. These things are there to make the game more interesting. They're there for you to master a craft and use that craft to your advantage. If I make a blade that leads to a dragon being killed swiftly and without much effort. That's great for me personally, because it means that my life as the Dovahkiin has just become so much easier!

Now, I know a lot of this has to do with other game-play mechanics and the difficulty not being up to the standards of some individuals, and rightly so people are upset about these aspects. But regardless, there are still many people who struggle with the game as it is in its bare essentials. To nerf any of these skills would be to hinder the people who might actually rely on them to survive. Changing one thing will change many other things that you've not yet thought about. Instead, limitation and applying these skills is much more rewarding and effective than crying out for a change that -you- want, heedless of others. It's just my two cents. Interesting topic, and a good few posts!

A lot of this issue is directly related to players' experience of linear fps, where personal choice and open-ended ability is non-existant due to the inbuilt limitations of the game parameters.

Some people simply can't cope with having too much 'choice' in a game, they need controls and limits.

Then dont smith or enchant?

well the op said it was a matter of the game being too easy, and not that they felt compelled to use these skills.

i am guessing that the op personal opinion is that a good game [on master difficulty] should be super difficult even with all theses skills maxed out. i can't say that i disagree with that, as i look at it from that perspective. but returning to my own perspective, i want as many options as possible so that i have the choice to switch from a game where i am godly using those 3 skills to a game where i can barely survive even while using those 3 skills to their fullest potential.

I like the way the game is designed. I enjoy travelling to shops and obtaining raw materiels to practice and improve my crafting abilitites (alchemy/smithing/smithing). I really like experimenting with potions and enchantments and smithing to make poweful items. I have just as much fun buying tons of ingredients and experimenting with potions as I do going through a dungeon killing draugur. The game is designed so that if you want to just collect ingredients and make potions all the time you can, if you want to rob houses all the time you can, if you want to fight through dungeons all the time you can. If you don't like what your character is doing just do something else instead of trying to restrict the game for everybody else.

I would rather someone start nerfing posts like this.

Stop maxing skills and then whining that you're too good at them

Control yourself man!!!

That's an interesting take. It reminds me of when I first got cable internet. I used to plan to do things like...cook dinner...as a webpage loaded. Suddenly it took half a second to load that webpage and I sat there confused....do I get up and wash the dishes, or read that webpage???? My entire plan of attack for the evening was shot because I had more of a good thing than I bargained for

To the OPer...

Who is grinding on iron daggers, compounding between alchemy and enchanting... Beth or you?

How about they nerf nothing and you stop grinding? There ya go, problem solved.

Actually you just need to have one rule: Fortify one-handed, two-handed and bow enchantments do not stack.

Without stacking four pieces of Fortify enchantment, your damage is significantly lowered (by about half). This change does not impact anything else. applies directly to the cause of your complains and is easy to implement.

Observed that you can manually apply this rule yourself! By making sure your equipment only contains one piece of Fortify enchantment. Ok end of thread.